Christchurch crash facts

[Kickaha]

EVERYBODY knows cops dishing out tickets is all part of a Government approved scam...

Yeah but you'll have to excuse Drew for not knowing that because he's a bit thick

[Scuba_Steve]

EVERYBODY knows cops dishing out tickets is all part of a Government approved scam...

it's usually referred to as "legalised extortion"

[scumdog]

it's usually referred to as "legalised extortion"

Whew, luckily in my 45+ years of driving/riding I have only been 'extorted' once!

[mikeey01]

cops dishing out tickets

No never, they don't do that do they?
Here I thought they clearly listened to every word you said, are understanding and more often than.... quite happy with a reasonable explanation.

[gammaguy]

I've heard of plenty of people who ride home after a track day like they've never even left the track.

I know plenty of people that think a ride to Akaroa is a trackday

[mikeey01]

I know plenty of people that think a ride to Akaroa is a trackday

I hear plenty of people starting the Akaroa GP most weekends, in fact on any fineish day.

[Berries]

They want people not to speed, or break other traffic laws. To make that message known they punish people who do such things.

Unless you have already shown that you have no concept of time and place and are sitting on 120 points it seems.

[GrayWolf]

Indeed, it's the bad line that's the problem, coupled with riding at a speed that leaves no margin for error, not the speed in and of itself. Considering this, would you perhaps let a rider off a speed infringement if, for the particular corner that was observed, the line was good and it was clear that there was still margin for error?

I can almost guarantee that people lose it on corners due to a bad line on the entry to that corner. I've cocked a few up in my day, it's a brave rider who claims not to have. Thing is, I cant find a law that allows me to enforce cornering lines. I guess what I'm saying is that in my line of work, I have limitations on what I can do. I can't set up a school to run training sessions, I can't operate the controls of someones bike. I can, however, enforce speed, engage with riders,
do high profile deterrence. So thats what I'm saying we'll do. It's not a threat at all. It's just a heads up as to what I am having my section do. Possibly you'd rather I hid in bushes, and did it all on the quiet. No deterrence value in that.

One thing I know for sure is that the faster I go into a corner on a bad line, the greater the degree of pucker that happens. I have survived my bad entries mostly by having enough spare room due to not flying at low level.

Totally agree with that, I can safely attest that 'bad lines' and in my case 30kph on a 25kph bend was sufficient to sit me on my arse..... I have constantly said track days do NOT give the skills needed on the road... you are all going the same way, on a purpose built surface with roadside furniture absent, as well as a lack of cliffs, mud banks, ditches in my case . It may allow you to explore the limit of your ability, but as Rastuscat points out, has no real correlation to riding on the public highway road conditions.

[rastuscat]

.......................... but as Rastuscat points out, ...........................

I thought you were serious until you agreed with me..............

[puddytat]

Totally agree with that, I can safely attest that 'bad lines' and in my case 30kph on a 25kph bend was sufficient to sit me on my arse..... I have constantly said track days do NOT give the skills needed on the road... you are all going the same way, on a purpose built surface with roadside furniture absent, as well as a lack of cliffs, mud banks, ditches in my case . It may allow you to explore the limit of your ability, but as Rastuscat points out, has no real correlation to riding on the public highway road conditions.

Quite alot of people who ride on the road & attend trackdays still cant ride that well.....whereas racing definitely does help you on the road I reckon. It teaches you how hard you can brake when you really need to,teaches you to late apex, teaches you to look for an entry into the apex & to look thru the corner. It also teaches you to avoid target fixation. It also teaches you how to ride on the road way fasterer if you wish.....
It can also help you realise earlier that things might be turning to custard & help to stop a panicked reaction,helps you to suss out what is going on with your suspension so you can sort it & gives you a damn good idea of grip in the wet.
Im not condoning excess speed on the road, just stating what I have found.
Biggest factor I reckon is Ego especially when out with mates.

[GrayWolf]

I thought you were serious until you agreed with me..............

I was serious Rastus

[wasiler]

Totally agree with that, I can safely attest that 'bad lines' and in my case 30kph on a 25kph bend was sufficient to sit me on my arse..... I have constantly said track days do NOT give the skills needed on the road... you are all going the same way, on a purpose built surface with roadside furniture absent, as well as a lack of cliffs, mud banks, ditches in my case . It may allow you to explore the limit of your ability, but as Rastuscat points out, has no real correlation to riding on the public highway road conditions.

[GrayWolf]

Quite alot of people who ride on the road & attend trackdays still cant ride that well.....whereas racing definitely does help you on the road I reckon. It teaches you how hard you can brake when you really need to,teaches you to late apex, teaches you to look for an entry into the apex & to look thru the corner. It also teaches you to avoid target fixation. It also teaches you how to ride on the road way fasterer if you wish.....
It can also help you realise earlier that things might be turning to custard & help to stop a panicked reaction,helps you to suss out what is going on with your suspension so you can sort it & gives you a damn good idea of grip in the wet.
Im not condoning excess speed on the road, just stating what I have found.
Biggest factor I reckon is Ego especially when out with mates.

I would not disagree with the ability to learn braking, apex, entry and late.... The point being made is... custom laid surface for grip, without pot holes, sheep/cow shit, tar snakes/patches. No ditches, sheep fencing, power poles, walls, fences, lamp posts etc etc,,,, I've never seen a race track that you have no clear view round/across a corner (unless using part of a road/highway).. there is no 'oncoming' Ute, WRX, Mitzi, lorry etc to allow for when taking the 'racing' line.... Thats the 'road skills' or allowances track days do not teach... So I would not agree with learners or 'new' riders going to track days,,, I think Grantman's crash thread explains it perfectly.. Overconfident with 'limited ability' or experience.
BTW I certainly do not consider myself a 'good rider'...

[reggie1198]

Quite alot of people who ride on the road & attend trackdays still cant ride that well.....whereas racing definitely does help you on the road I reckon. It teaches you how hard you can brake when you really need to,teaches you to late apex, teaches you to look for an entry into the apex & to look thru the corner. It also teaches you to avoid target fixation. It also teaches you how to ride on the road way fasterer if you wish.....
It can also help you realise earlier that things might be turning to custard & help to stop a panicked reaction,helps you to suss out what is going on with your suspension so you can sort it & gives you a damn good idea of grip in the wet.
Im not condoning excess speed on the road, just stating what I have found.
Biggest factor I reckon is Ego especially when out with mates.

Puddytat, I couldn't agree with you less, I have a mate in Ireland who races on a 1000cc Suzuki in a clubman series, he's pretty bloody quick, yet his nickname is crash because of his road riding antics. He has binned every new bike he's ever owned at some point.
Now to respond to your claims,
The only thing that teaches hard braking is practice, what the track gives you is a constant surface to practice on. Not good if you come flat out up to a corner thinking I only need xxx meters cause that's what I learnt on the track, road surface is a bigger determining factor, wet/dry, gravel, mid corner bumps, oil, shit, etc.
Not all corners can be seen through before entry.
How the fuck does the track teach avoiding target fixation? There's nothing to fixate on.
You can set up your suspension for the track and gain faster lap times, constant surface again.
Very hard to tune suspension for the road, and as far as grip levels in the wet go, once again it all comes down to the surface, and a lack of grip mid corner can be unsettling at best and fatal at worst.
While in ireland I did a three day ROSPA rider training course, I learnt more from real world training over those 3 days than from the multitude of track days since, in fact I think it made me faster on the track.

Reggie

[swbarnett]

Did that yesterday. See my earlier posts.

Not condoning speed, just felt that, as he already had 120 demerits, another ticket wouldn't serve much purpose.

But that was because they were already screwed. What if they'd had no demerits?

Funny, if I had been checking speed on a straight, I'd have been bagged for it. So I picked the exit to a bend, where excess speed causes most problems, and now I'm getting bagged for it.

Not trynig to bag you. I think it's certainly a step in the right direction. Just trying to determine how much you're looking at rider behaviour other than just speed.