Temporary road signs turned 90 degrees while not needed, dangerous practice

[MSTRS:Me]

Any reduction in the risks that riders face must be commended.
But really - a sign turned in line with the road is less of a problem than signs that warn of nothing.

[MrKiwi]

Any reduction in the risks that riders face must be commended.
But really - a sign turned in line with the road is less of a problem than signs that warn of nothing.

I do not disagree with you, there are lots of dangers. This is one of many we can do something about.

[FJRider]

This is a link explaining what is involved in a Traffic Management Plan, in particular the temporary speed limits implimented in roadworks areas.
There are processes in place now if you believe there is any danger to the public in those areas. Basically ... the Road controlling Authority for that road (I assume they mean Transit,or the local Council) must have approved the Traffic Management Plan, have a copy of the plan and conditions it was approved. Plus allowance for complaints or problems with any dangerous procedures used by a contractor.

So if such dangers are found by any of you ... contact the Authority controlling that piece of road and complain. The (any) resulting action, may be quicker that any attempt to change legislation.

And KEEP A COPY/RECORD of it.

I doubt if any Mayor wants any deaths on their roads ... especially after a complaint is (has been) made .... in writing.

http://www.trainz.co.nz/Resources/co...appendices.doc

[Ocean1]

That could likely completely ruin the brand spanking new road and destroy weeks or months of effort, as well as waste a fuck-tonne of money.

Yeah maybe. But what the fuck's the story with leaving M4 all over the road for the public to roll in nicely eh? As far as I'm concerned you get the big fuckoff roller on the job and then you sweep up as part of the contract. Sick of getting stone chips all over my very expensive paint and having to scrape rocks off the Buell's arse and then cleaning the fucking tar off.

Any reduction in the risks that riders face must be commended.
But really - a sign turned in line with the road is less of a problem than signs that warn of nothing.

We've all got our pet hates. Mine's those signposts around theoutside of corners, the ones with the chevrons that I presume are suppoesd to indicate "Hey fuckwit, there's a corner here, turn that way". Someone needs to explain to LTNZ that space is where most vehicles end up after losing control and the last thing you want there is a forrest of fucking 4"x4" posts.


Oh, and while I'm here: thanks for the effort JW, good man.

[MrKiwi]

This is a link explaining what is involved in a Traffic Management Plan, in particular the temporary speed limits implimented in roadworks areas.
There are processes in place now if you believe there is any danger to the public in those areas. Basically ... the Road controlling Authority for that road (I assume they mean Transit,or the local Council) must have approved the Traffic Management Plan, have a copy of the plan and conditions it was approved. Plus allowance for complaints or problems with any dangerous procedures used by a contractor.

So if such dangers are found by any of you ... contact the Authority controlling that piece of road and complain. The (any) resulting action, may be quicker that any attempt to change legislation.

And KEEP A COPY/RECORD of it.

I doubt if any Mayor wants any deaths on their roads ... especially after a complaint is (has been) made .... in writing.

http://www.trainz.co.nz/Resources/copttm appendices.doc

Who's talking about changing the legislation? No one is. The original advice right up front in the first post was to take a photo, date and time and send to the NZTA. You can also send it to the local road controlling authority.

[Berries]

This is a link explaining what is involved in a Traffic Management Plan, in particular the temporary speed limits implimented in roadworks areas.
There are processes in place now if you believe there is any danger to the public in those areas. Basically ... the Road controlling Authority for that road (I assume they mean Transit,or the local Council) must have approved the Traffic Management Plan, have a copy of the plan and conditions it was approved. Plus allowance for complaints or problems with any dangerous procedures used by a contractor.

So if such dangers are found by any of you ... contact the Authority controlling that piece of road and complain. The (any) resulting action, may be quicker that any attempt to change legislation.

That is what I said earlier but I think you are missing the point. Imagine riding down the road and seeing a roadworks sign, placed in the carriageway on the white edge line. Ignore everything that has been said about speed limits, it is just a road works sign, perhaps warning of work on the side road ahead. Nice new sign (Tui), just sitting there and obvious to all approaching traffic. The guys finish up for the night but are coming back the next day so decide they aren't going to take all the signs with them, just lay them down or turn them so people can't see the message. Bang. You are not always going to see a sign that is turned at 90 degrees to your approach. If it is off the road then no problem, the OP is about signs in the road where they can be hit.

It is easy to get a TMP approved. Whether that approved TMP has any relationship with what is on site is another thing. As for unattended sites, well, the less said the better. No legislation needs changing though. It just needs an amendment to the code of practice and a note to all people registered as an STMS. Then it is fixed.

[tnarg]

I was on the home from work the other month and some traffic management company decided to put there signs away for the day. The lay them down flat on a cycle lane next to the live road. A kid heading home after school comes down the hill on his bike doesn't see the signs and end up face planting the road. He needed a trip in an ambulance.

I'am stms qualified and work for the council so took photos and rang Auckland Transport and got there auditor on to them. I know Auckland Transport do take this stuff seriously, so it's worth ringing/emailing what ever RCA when you think there is a potential hazard.

[Jantar]

...The practice described outlined and being discussed in this thread is not illegal .... it is ... at worst, frowned upon. ... ...

Actually, it IS illegal. Temporary speed signs may only be placed as stated in an approved Traffic Management Plan. If that TMP states that the temporary speed signs are to be removed when no work is being carried out, then simply turning them sideways is non compliant and illegal.

It is also a defence if you get pinged for speeding in a temporary speed zone to show that the speed signs do not conform with the approved TMP and therefore are illegal. You cannot use this defence at the time of getting a ticket as there is no way the cop can know whether they are valid or not. You can only use it as a defence in court, so if you are doing 71 in a temporary 30 zone, even if the temporary signs are not there legally, you will be walking for 30 days.

[Berries]

The issue of temporary speed limits at road works needs a whole thread of its own.

[FJRider]

Actually, it IS illegal. Temporary speed signs may only be placed as stated in an approved Traffic Management Plan. If that TMP states that the temporary speed signs are to be removed when no work is being carried out, then simply turning them sideways is non compliant and illegal.

Illegal ... (As stated in legislation of the Transport act) ... ??? or against the conditions/rules of their approved Traffic management plan (is it the same thing ... ??? Who issues/approves them ???), if indeed it was stated in the plan they must be removed. Often it states temporary speed limit/road works signs must not be shown out of working hours. And if road works is still in progress ... the road works sign remains and the speed limit sign is to not be shown. Depending on the work being carried out.
If work is being done on the shoulder of the road ... the temporary speed limit must remain in place. Even if the seal on the roadway is intact.

With the strict rules now in place that govern the placement of road works signage, and the course needed to be attended/passed ... and have permits issued to specific people to allow them to place signs.
Deviation from those rules will result in removal of that permit of the person that placed the signs incorrectly. (Not a court issue) This is often more of a punishment for that person ... and his/her employer. than any court action.
The rules for placement of signs can be complex ... and what may be seen as unnecessary/incorrect signage (or just dam silly) ... is infact ... required under the conditions of the Traffic management Plan ... issued/approved by the Roading engineer of the body that issued the contract. Often the local Council.

Such is the rules.

[jasonu]

Your mummy and daddy fucked in the back seat of one to bring you in this world, that was even before you could buy RTD's.

Thanks for clearing that one up for me mate.

[skinman]

I f...n hate 30km signs with no evidence of work being done, bloody stupid, & if they made the roads properly instead of doing a halfassed job we wouldnt have to go slow over them to avoid damaging the seal.
oh and dont use the traffic to bed in the stone chip thats just being lazy c...ts, use a rollar & clean up the remaining shit so us on less than 4 wheels dont have to slither & slide over it
bunch of cost cutting lazy pricks with no idea of what is safe or god forbid just comman sense
& cheese cutters, yep, tax dollars hard at work there

anyone been down the waikato expressway lately, quality piece of road that, what a f..n mess, how old is it & its f..ked already

[Akzle]

is it the same thing ... ??? Who issues/approves them ???),

google it.

...if they made the roads properly instead of doing a halfassed job we wouldnt have to go slow over them to avoid damaging the seal.
oh and dont use the traffic to bed in the stone chip thats just being lazy c...ts, use a rollar & clean up the remaining shit so us on less than 4 wheels dont have to slither & slide over it
bunch of cost cutting lazy pricks with no idea of what is safe or god forbid just comman sense
& cheese cutters, yep, tax dollars hard at work there

anyone been down the waikato expressway lately, quality piece of road that, what a f..n mess, how old is it & its f..ked already

maaaaaaaate. have you seen the highbrook development in auckland? nice expensive bit of roading, that.
i went over it when it was first "done" and thought "they're going to rip this up within the year"
guess fucken what? within a year they had to rip it up because they didn't compact it properly in the first fucking place. and it's an industrial estate and has trucks on it 24/7.
same as the roads up home. they resealed the portland turnoff last year - it's fucked again! (same thing - trucks 24/7) and they left a f*ing hoey cut in it, so cars/tucks coming off the old chip seal smashed the edge of the new seal. (hows the taupo bypass holding up?)

do the whole road properly? SHIT NO, 10m of hotmix here, 20m with some bitu-mix over there, fill this pothole with the roadie's ciggy butts/ roaches and paint the top black. scoured gravel? gap 50 base? shit, two passes on the grader at 20mm will get that ehh?

FUCK ROADIES.
/rant

[baffa]

google it.


maaaaaaaate. have you seen the highbrook development in auckland? nice expensive bit of roading, that.
i went over it when it was first "done" and thought "they're going to rip this up within the year"
guess fucken what? within a year they had to rip it up because they didn't compact it properly in the first fucking place. and it's an industrial estate and has trucks on it 24/7.
same as the roads up home. they resealed the portland turnoff last year - it's fucked again! (same thing - trucks 24/7) and they left a f*ing hoey cut in it, so cars/tucks coming off the old chip seal smashed the edge of the new seal. (hows the taupo bypass holding up?)

do the whole road properly? SHIT NO, 10m of hotmix here, 20m with some bitu-mix over there, fill this pothole with the roadie's ciggy butts/ roaches and paint the top black. scoured gravel? gap 50 base? shit, two passes on the grader at 20mm will get that ehh?

FUCK ROADIES.
/rant

Why would you worry about the poor state of our roads? You said yourself you arent a part of this society.