1 October 2012 new era for motorcycling

[Motobutch]

The new guidelines are 120 hour of tuition before you can expect to pass your test. Thats twice the number of hours you need for a pilot licence and its simply not affordable for many.

Out of curiosity, where does one find that 120hr guideline? I'd assume that it is based on 120hrs of "unskilled" tuition, as one would get from a parent or other non-qualified instructor. I totally agree, that it's the blind leading the blind in that situation. In that case however, you would expect that someone would be able to attain the same standard of proficiency from a much lesser amount of instruction from a specialised driving instructor. Remember it's just a guideline, right? No one is actually checking that you've done the requisite amount of hours when you rock up on test day.

Oh, and you might be surprised about the level of professionalism of some flying instructors..

[Dim]

In Aussie (well some states) they have driver log books which are "checked" when the person goes for their Provisional/Restricted license. Although there's no way of actually checking that the entries in the log books ever happened, I know of several people who either made up trips, or just rounded up the time on trips they did (5mins to the shops = 1hr).

As far as the LAMS bikes go (the thread seems to have strayed to being about car learners) I had a Kawa Zephyr 550 which was on the approved list, which although having ~50hp was quite a bit weightier than another guy's ninja 250 (especially getting back on the zephyr after riding the ninja around a race track). If anything the 250 was probably faster....

Also over there if you have an accident while riding a bike you're unlicensed for you are not covered by medicare (ambulance ride, drs bill, etc all comes out of your pocket).....hopefully no-one tells ACC that idea

[Tricia1000]

You don't need to have 120 hours with a Driving Instructor. Just 120 hours under supervision.

Tricia
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

WTF

At how much per hour 50?? 60??
Wouldnt want to have twins that want drivers licence each.

Cancel all insurance policy,eat only(cold) instant noodles,cut off phone and power,walk to work and get a second job to get the kids a license.

[davereid]

You don't need to have 120 hours with a Driving Instructor. Just 120 hours under supervision.

Tricia
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

Hi Tricia,

you are quite right that many families can afford to swap the ballet lessons for professional driving instruction.

But right now there are 280,000 children living under the poverty line. That may be careless parenting in many cases. But those kids aren't even getting shoes or breakfast.

They represent 280,000 kids that will not be able to afford professional tuition when their time to become drivers arrives.

Many of them wont bother.

Then we create a cycle of misery.

We catch them without a licence, issue a pseudo licence so we can ping them then start a treadmill of punishment that they can never get off, and that doesn't actually meet our needs either, as we never get what we want, which is safe and legal drivers.

In fact, once we start the cycle, we virtually guarantee that we will never end up with what we want.

Even the car confiscation thing is starting to fall to bits, with under half the impounded cars being retrieved.

The NZTA is now having to pay towies $100 before they will even inpound cars, as in poor areas the towies know its a one way trip for which they will never be paid.

Its easier and cheaper for the unlicensed driver to get another vehicle than it is for him to pay the fines and storage for the impounded one.

We will see an improvement in the pass rate. As those who know they wont pass stop trying.

Its all ready happening. The "Northern Advocate" reported that on average 280 people a year in Kaikohe sat a driving test before the new rules. Since the new rules came in only 80 people have bothered.

I simply can't believe that we are dumb enough to think the others are all going to catch the bus for the rest of their lives.

[oneofsix]

Hi Tricia,

you are quite right that many families can afford to swap the ballet lessons for professional driving instruction.

But right now there are 280,000 children living under the poverty line. That may be careless parenting in many cases. But those kids aren't even getting shoes or breakfast.

They represent 280,000 kids that will not be able to afford professional tuition when their time to become drivers arrives.

Many of them wont bother.

Then we create a cycle of misery.

We catch them without a licence, issue a pseudo licence so we can ping them then start a treadmill of punishment that they can never get off, and that doesn't actually meet our needs either, as we never get what we want, which is safe and legal drivers.

In fact, once we start the cycle, we virtually guarantee that we will never end up with what we want.

Even the car confiscation thing is starting to fall to bits, with under half the impounded cars being retrieved.

The NZTA is now having to pay towies $100 before they will even inpound cars, as in poor areas the towies know its a one way trip for which they will never be paid.

Its easier and cheaper for the unlicensed driver to get another vehicle than it is for him to pay the fines and storage for the impounded one.

We will see an improvement in the pass rate. As those who know they wont pass stop trying.

Its all ready happening. The "Northern Advocate" reported that on average 280 people a year in Kaikohe sat a driving test before the new rules. Since the new rules came in only 80 people have bothered.

I simply can't believe that we are dumb enough to think the others are all gong to catch the bus for the rest of their lives.

You didn't even mention how the lack of a drivers licence makes find a job harder therefore committing them to benefit or total lack of respect for the law.

I note they keep touting the drop in pass rate but don't mention the drop in new attempts and when you read the reasons for failing some candidates it doesn't take much to realise that the roads contain a significant number of unlicensed and therefore uninsured drivers on the road. If you don't have license why have a WOF or Rego or get the car checked after you and your mates lower it?

[Lula]

Just a heads up Motorcycle Trader magazine will be featuring LAMS in the October issue (on sale 1st October). It'll be a complete guide to all the learner approved motorcycles under the new LAMS scheme plus in depth test and reviews on some of them.

Also featured will be Financing your Ride - what to look for when considering finance.

[Edbear]

How about all those critical of the regulations put forward their proposal to deal with the fact that NZ has the highest death rate for drivers aged 16 - 17 in the whole developed world?

Very easy from our keyboards to find fault, not so easy to find a practical and reasonable solution.

[duckonin]

Hi Tricia,

you are quite right that many families can afford to swap the ballet lessons for professional driving instruction.

But right now there are 280,000 children living under the poverty line. That may be careless parenting in many cases. But those kids aren't even getting shoes or breakfast.

They represent 280,000 kids that will not be able to afford professional tuition when their time to become drivers arrives.

Many of them wont bother.

Then we create a cycle of misery.

We catch them without a licence, issue a pseudo licence so we can ping them then start a treadmill of punishment that they can never get off, and that doesn't actually meet our needs either, as we never get what we want, which is safe and legal drivers.

In fact, once we start the cycle, we virtually guarantee that we will never end up with what we want.

Even the car confiscation thing is starting to fall to bits, with under half the impounded cars being retrieved.

The NZTA is now having to pay towies $100 before they will even inpound cars, as in poor areas the towies know its a one way trip for which they will never be paid.

Its easier and cheaper for the unlicensed driver to get another vehicle than it is for him to pay the fines and storage for the impounded one.

We will see an improvement in the pass rate. As those who know they wont pass stop trying.

Its all ready happening. The "Northern Advocate" reported that on average 280 people a year in Kaikohe sat a driving test before the new rules. Since the new rules came in only 80 people have bothered.

I simply can't believe that we are dumb enough to think the others are all going to catch the bus for the rest of their lives.

What a load of total crap !!

[davereid]

What a load of total crap !!

Thanks for your well reasoned and researched contribution to the discussion.

You must be a business advisor at NZTA given the quality of your contribution.

[Ocean1]

How about all those critical of the regulations put forward their proposal to deal with the fact that NZ has the highest death rate for drivers aged 16 - 17 in the whole developed world?

Very easy from our keyboards to find fault, not so easy to find a practical and reasonable solution.

How about those who are all shocked and mortified about that pay for their favourite solution.

Check NZ's young driver numbers. Look out your car window at the geography. Then tell me you can regulate the "problem" away.

[Edbear]

How about those who are all shocked and mortified about that pay for their favourite solution.

Check NZ's young driver numbers. Look out your car window at the geography. Then tell me you can regulate the "problem" away.

Correct. Regulation can offer a certain amount and were it not for the problem TPTB wouldn't spend so much on consultations and policy making in an attempt to rectify it.

As always it is down to education and attitude and you can only do so much about those as they depend on the individual wanting to do the right thing.

[davereid]

Looks like big money being made by the driving licence industry. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10834337 says

.

Learner drivers have stumped up more than $650,000 to resit the controversial new test since it was introduced six months ago.

New Zealand Transport Agency figures show 7397 resits at a cost of $88 each have been taken since tough new standards were introduced in February.

And a former employee of NZ Driver Licensing, the sole company contracted to conduct driving tests, contacted the Herald on Sunday, claiming he recently quit because he was embarrassed about the number of people he was required to fail.

"After the new tests came in it was an unwritten rule that testers had to stop passing as many people as they used to," the ex-worker, who asked not to be named, said.

He said some failed candidates accused him of revenue-gathering.

"A lot of new testers were also brought in who weren't as well trained as they should be. One guy was so cocky he nick-named himself 'The Terminator'."

The Herald on Sunday reported last week that some drivers, their families and their driving instructors think the new 1R tests are too difficult and are causing unnecessary stress and financial hardship.

Out of 27,568 tests since February, 12,123 people passed and 4840 failed. Another 10,605 learners had their tests stopped because of critical errors or immediate-failure errors.

But the transport agency defends the resits. Principal adviser for testing standards, Jim Furneaux, said the new test was more difficult than the old one "but it is significant that more than 60 per cent of 16- and 17-year-olds have passed the new test, no problem".

"It is those that are stuck with bad habits they have picked up from other drivers who seem to be having the most difficulties."

Furneaux dismissed the claims from the former tester as sour grapes.

"We have not turned into a revenue-gathering agency and I don't think the money that comes in even covers our costs. This sounds like a former employee who has an axe to grind because all of our testers are properly certified for the job."

NZ Driver Licensing (1998) Limited is a listed company with six directors: Robert Carl August, Donald Roger Marley, Lionel Edwin Reeve, Michael Joseph Sidwell, James Sidney Wiles and Ian Paul Woodhouse.

Asked about how much extra money NZ Driver Licensing was making from the increased number of resits, the firm's operations manager, Gerard Clark, declined to comment and referred all queries back to NZTA's media department.

Open Road Driving School owner Matthew Harding, from Auckland, has been preparing learners for tests for 20 years. He describes the new standards as "brutal".

"If youngsters have to keep paying out for resits the big danger is that some will not be able to afford it and start driving around anyway with no proper licence or insurance."


The Transport Agency appear to have created a monopoly for a private company, then changed the rules to ensure that that company has plenty of customers.

[Ocean1]

The Transport Agency appear to have created a monopoly for a private company, then changed the rules to ensure that that company has plenty of customers.

Seems to be the Kiwi way.

Almost as if the Aussie monopolies aren't quite fucking us over quite enough already.

[Tricia1000]

I don't know where "open road driving school" is located, but since February, we have only had a maximum of 5 students who have had to resit the Car restricted test. And that was down to test nerves on the day.

The new test format is terrific.
Tricia
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

Looks like big money being made by the driving licence industry. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10834337 says

.

Learner drivers have stumped up more than $650,000 to resit the controversial new test since it was introduced six months ago.

New Zealand Transport Agency figures show 7397 resits at a cost of $88 each have been taken since tough new standards were introduced in February.

And a former employee of NZ Driver Licensing, the sole company contracted to conduct driving tests, contacted the Herald on Sunday, claiming he recently quit because he was embarrassed about the number of people he was required to fail.

"After the new tests came in it was an unwritten rule that testers had to stop passing as many people as they used to," the ex-worker, who asked not to be named, said.

He said some failed candidates accused him of revenue-gathering.

"A lot of new testers were also brought in who weren't as well trained as they should be. One guy was so cocky he nick-named himself 'The Terminator'."

The Herald on Sunday reported last week that some drivers, their families and their driving instructors think the new 1R tests are too difficult and are causing unnecessary stress and financial hardship.

Out of 27,568 tests since February, 12,123 people passed and 4840 failed. Another 10,605 learners had their tests stopped because of critical errors or immediate-failure errors.

But the transport agency defends the resits. Principal adviser for testing standards, Jim Furneaux, said the new test was more difficult than the old one "but it is significant that more than 60 per cent of 16- and 17-year-olds have passed the new test, no problem".

"It is those that are stuck with bad habits they have picked up from other drivers who seem to be having the most difficulties."

Furneaux dismissed the claims from the former tester as sour grapes.

"We have not turned into a revenue-gathering agency and I don't think the money that comes in even covers our costs. This sounds like a former employee who has an axe to grind because all of our testers are properly certified for the job."

NZ Driver Licensing (1998) Limited is a listed company with six directors: Robert Carl August, Donald Roger Marley, Lionel Edwin Reeve, Michael Joseph Sidwell, James Sidney Wiles and Ian Paul Woodhouse.

Asked about how much extra money NZ Driver Licensing was making from the increased number of resits, the firm's operations manager, Gerard Clark, declined to comment and referred all queries back to NZTA's media department.

Open Road Driving School owner Matthew Harding, from Auckland, has been preparing learners for tests for 20 years. He describes the new standards as "brutal".

"If youngsters have to keep paying out for resits the big danger is that some will not be able to afford it and start driving around anyway with no proper licence or insurance."


The Transport Agency appear to have created a monopoly for a private company, then changed the rules to ensure that that company has plenty of customers.

[davereid]

I don't know where "open road driving school" is located, but since February, we have only had a maximum of 5 students who have had to resit the Car restricted test. And that was down to test nerves on the day. The new test format is terrific. Tricia RoADA (Dip)Consultant to NZTA

Given that the NZTA have provided a private company with a monopoly, and a ready supply of customers who simply have no choice, I'm not surprised it has widespread support from the driver licencing industry.

In fact I'm surprised that anyone has broken ranks at all.

I will be digging to see how a public agency can award a lucrative contract as a complete monopoly, my OIA request is in the mail.