Operation Mataki - SH75 to Akaroa

[onearmedbandit]

And I wonder how much impact this thread has had on bikers speeds on Sh75 (well KBers speeds anyway) given that we all know Mr Rastuscat and colleagues will be lurking each weekend? Not much probably but I guess there'll be a few carrying donuts under the seat just in case.

Oh a few I know well won't ride it now.

[cruza]

hey Im hearing ya man... Im the same BUT today I figgered I'd resepct the thread starters heads up and go straight, no rego etc so borrowed a bike only 3800k on it never exceded the speed limit did everything right, added to rasta's stats... go figger

Ya probably need too do one of those acc rider training courses D , heard they a great help to those useless over 40 returning riders like yourself that haven't done much riding the last few years......
......

[SVboy]

Ya probably need too do one of those acc rider training courses D , heard they a great help to those useless over 40 returning riders like yourself that haven't done much riding the last few years......
......

Oh you gunna get it now boy!

[dangerous]

If I wasnt in so much pain Id LOUGH with ya's... or bash ya silly, now fuck off its old man bed time, some wounds to lick first

[cruza]

Oh you gunna get it now boy!

Not the only one , got a scorpio at home with bent bars, forks after a 'girls arvo round the bays'

[rastuscat]

I've only been in the country a few years so some of the finer points of the road rules here continue to elude me, but isn't there some goofy officially endorsed buffer or tolerance or some such? Always see it on Holiday weekends that the official tolerance goes from 110 to 105 or some such, no? The whole concept amuses me to no end, but I digress.

I fully support the work you do. Not to blow smoke up your ass, but you seem to be the model of what a coppa should be, rather then what some of them are. However, surely 109 is within the "tolerance"? And there isn't a whole lot in it between 110 and 113. I suppose speeding is speeding, but doesn't it get a bit hazey when there's a publicly acknowledged "tolerance" over the limit?

Smirk.

Here's a chance to outlay the history of speed enforcement since I started in 1989.

I started in Orkers, and we used to have a 20 kmh tolerance. Go 20 or more over, you'd get a ticket. Go 19 or less over, we wouldn't even stop you.

In Invercargill the Traffic Nazis enforced a 6 kmnh tolerance. If you drove down Dee Street at 57 or more the locals all thought you were Evel Kneivel, coz they knew Cockrofts Cowboys would nail you to the wall.

So, we had a situation where the tolerance was set by the Popos who were working in that area. The public just accepted it, bitched about revenue collecting, but at least everyone knew where they stood. Traffic cops were areseholes, and the public were happy to at least know where they stood.

In 1992 along came the Police. They took over the traffic dept, and the grey areas started to get even greyer. You didn't know whether the cop who stopped you was a real policeman, or one of those bloodt traffic bastards. If the ticket book came out, your answer was there.

The orange and blue cars were for the real Policemen, the yellow and blue ones were for traffic cops. It took a few years for that scheme to develop. It took those years for each Police district to work out how it was going to manage the new workload i.e. the traffic enforcement it now had to do. See, the Police were then contracted to do the work that had previously been done by the black and whites. Eventually, each district settled on setting up Strategic Traffic Units (STUs), the core traffic groups.

A couple of senior Popos went to Parliament, summonsed by George Hawkins. They presented a well researched proposal to establish a road policing strategy, with all the analysis, cost benefits etc. It had taken months of work to develop. George didn't like it, so gave them 20 minutes to come up with a new idea. And thus was born the Highway Patrol.

While all this circus was going on, in 1993 the Speed Camera operation started. The tolerance for cameras was set at that spurious engineering measure known as the 85th percentile. Problem was, it was very easy to manipulate the 85th percentile, as it was measured by cameras themselves, during surveys. If you wanted a lower tolerance, you would do the survey in a more overt way, causing the traffic to slow down, and this lowering the 85th percentile, and the tolerance. The saving grace was that the cameras would not trigger below 11 over a given limit, except outside schools.

So you had a situation where the cops in Auckland were allowing 20 kmh, the cops in Invergiggle were allowing 6, cameras were mostly set to 11 over. How anyone knew what was acceptable was a mystery.

So, someone in management drew a line in the metaphorical sand, and set it at 10 over a given limit. Except outside schools, or for trucks, or for towing a trailer, or in road works. I think it was the late Steve Fitz, now there was a future thinker. Genuinely decent and clever man, that man. We told the country that it was okay to do up to 10 over any given limit, as we'd let you go thta fast and not bust you.

But hold on, THAT wasn't actually what we said. The full policy was that anyone exceeding the speed limit even by 1 kmh was to be stopped. 1-10 kmh over was to get a warning, 11 or more was to get a ticket. Exceopt there were so many just driving at 10 over that we couldn't do it. Also, even the Nazi cops felt naff stopping someone and warning them for 2 or 3 ks over. So we generally don't.

And look whats happened. I stopped a woman on the Orkers north motorway in the early days at 113. She inssisted that she was entitled to get a ticket for only 3 kmh over, as we had said that it was okay to do 110, and she was only 3 km over that. FECK ME.

Even now, the tolerance is contentious. Outside schools it's 4 kmh, we write at 5. Within 250 metres of a school boundary. From 0800-1600 Mon to Fri, or at any other time there are lots of kids there i.e. Saturday sport. It's 4 kmh if you are driving a truck, or in a light vehicle towing a trailer. It's 4 kmh in road works.

Now, all this is about the official tolerance. How many times have you driven past a Popo car, knowing that you'd just been caught, when the Popo car just drove on, making it to the Donut shop and leaving you to unpucker.

Then there's the cops who stop you and send you on your way, nil ticket in hand, even though you may have been over the tolerance. It's called discretion, and every constabulary member is empowered to exercise discretion. It's fair to say that some exercise more discretion than others. It's a very subjective judgement. A word of caution; what you think might be reasonable might not be what the Popo thinks is reasonable. If you exceed the tolerance, you empower the Popo to make the decision as to whether you get the ticket or not. Don't exceed the tolerance, then expect the Popo to exercise discretion. That's the road to disappointment.

In hindsight, what I did toady flies in the face of what I actually believe; that folk are entitled to know that we write tickets at 11 over. What I have done is encourage 5 riders to believe that what they did was actually okay.
My bad, in hindsight. Yeah, it feels nice to have the riders say thankyou and speak to you like they think you're a decent bastard, but haven't I actually muddied the waters a little?

I also, conflictingly, think that some of the roadside discussions I had might just do some good. They all went fairly well, and I got to preach the road safety gospel a bit. Not bad. I didn't miss that opportunity. I guess there's value in that. Beyond making myself feel like a decent bloke.

[Berries]

In hindsight, what I did toady flies in the face of what I actually believe; that folk are entitled to know that we write tickets at 11 over. What I have done is encourage 5 riders to believe that what they did was actually okay.
My bad, in hindsight. Yeah, it feels nice to have the riders say thankyou and speak to you like they think you're a decent bastard, but haven't I actually muddied the waters a little?

It goes without saying that we would all prefer a warning than a ticket. But a warning lasts for what? Until the next bend when they are out of sight? Until the day after? Demerits last for two years and if you are siting on 80 of them you must be thinking a bit more about your speed than if you got a finger wagging a few weeks earlier. Unluckily for you you are in a no win situation.

I guess the question is, although those five guys think you are a good bastard, did their speeds change after having a chat? I doubt it, in fact they probably now think that the tolerance has increased to whatever speed you got them at.

[rastuscat]

It goes without saying that we would all prefer a warning than a ticket. But a warning lasts for what? Until the next bend when they are out of sight? Until the day after? Demerits last for two years and if you are siting on 80 of them you must be thinking a bit more about your speed than if you got a finger wagging a few weeks earlier. Unluckily for you you are in a no win situation.

I guess the question is, although those five guys think you are a good bastard, did their speeds change after having a chat? I doubt it, in fact they probably now think that the tolerance has increased to whatever speed you got them at.

Zackery. That's why I'm conflicted.

[Subike]

It goes without saying that we would all prefer a warning than a ticket. But a warning lasts for what? Until the next bend when they are out of sight? Until the day after? Demerits last for two years and if you are siting on 80 of them you must be thinking a bit more about your speed than if you got a finger wagging a few weeks earlier. Unluckily for you you are in a no win situation.

I guess the question is, although those five guys think you are a good bastard, did their speeds change after having a chat? I doubt it, in fact they probably now think that the tolerance has increased to whatever speed you got them at.

I agree with Berries on this. Next week when you stop them for doing the same, they will cry wolf about today, arguing that your not being consistent and are just a cunt.
Fear of loosing their license unfortunately is the better option,
IMO, if it had been a single rider, discretion might work, when its a group, egos take over and we become arrogant bastards.

[rastuscat]

I agree with Berries on this. Next week when you stop them for doing the same, they will cry wolf about today, arguing that your not being consistent and are just a cunt.
Fear of loosing their license unfortunately is the better option,
IMO, if it had been a single rider, discretion might work, when its a group, egos take over and we become arrogant bastards.

My thoughts too.

A reality is that if you warn the first guy you come across, its harder to write the second guy a ticket. Our general rule of having a good donut day it to write the first thing you see when you exit the Snake Pit, and the day will flow. Warn or ignore the first offence, and it's a slippery slope to doing bugger all.

Its a sign of maturity in an enforcement Popo though to accept that sometimes, slow days happen. No stress, better days are just a day away.

[mossy1200]

My thoughts too.

A reality is that if you warn the first guy you come across, its harder to write the second guy a ticket. Our general rule of having a good donut day it to write the first thing you see when you exit the Snake Pit, and the day will flow. Warn or ignore the first offence, and it's a slippery slope to doing bugger all.

Its a sign of maturity in an enforcement Popo though to accept that sometimes, slow days happen. No stress, better days are just a day away.

Idd rather the penalty points were by discretion based on attitude and situation and the fine was automatic on being pulled over.

[Scuba_Steve]

It goes without saying that we would all prefer a warning than a ticket. But a warning lasts for what? Until the next bend when they are out of sight? Until the day after? Demerits last for two years and if you are siting on 80 of them you must be thinking a bit more about your speed than if you got a finger wagging a few weeks earlier. Unluckily for you you are in a no win situation.

I guess the question is, although those five guys think you are a good bastard, did their speeds change after having a chat? I doubt it, in fact they probably now think that the tolerance has increased to whatever speed you got them at.

Ticket lasts for how long? I've been dead since before I was born & I'll be dead until I die (or so the propaganda tells me). For awhile there I was getting quite a nice collection of toilet paper going (they could make that stuff a bit softer tho, it's like the old public toilet wax paper) has it slowed me down??? Not 1 fucking bit, will it ever??? yea, about the same time that scam & it's toilet paper starts magically saving lives... Which I expect to be around the same time I'm handed NZ

[Rhys]

It goes without saying that we would all prefer a warning than a ticket. But a warning lasts for what? Until the next bend when they are out of sight? Until the day after? Demerits last for two years and if you are siting on 80 of them you must be thinking a bit more about your speed than if you got a finger wagging a few weeks earlier. Unluckily for you you are in a no win situation.

I guess the question is, although those five guys think you are a good bastard, did their speeds change after having a chat? I doubt it, in fact they probably now think that the tolerance has increased to whatever speed you got them at.

what about a 'suspended' ticket, its kept on record for 90 days, if there is no other offense its wiped, if your court again you're a clown and you pay the first and second offense

[onearmedbandit]

I agree with Berries on this. Next week when you stop them for doing the same, they will cry wolf about today, arguing that your not being consistent and are just a cunt.
Fear of loosing their license unfortunately is the better option,
IMO, if it had been a single rider, discretion might work, when its a group, egos take over and we become arrogant bastards.

Most riders I know wouldn't cry that. First time was a warning, everyone knows they could've been done. Be stupid enough to be caught doing exactly the same thing next week, or even next year and most people would accept they were now due a ticket. Or maybe that's just me. And I've been stupid enough before. 3 times in two weeks when I was a lot younger, and two of those I received 6mth bans for. Yeah don't ask how that works. I was young and dumb.

[dangerous]

I dont get it... reading above posters including RC now say whats going on ie the warnings and this thread itself is a wast of time, back to screwing alls arse to the wall for 111kph when passing or gliding down a perfectly harmless straight (ie no other traffic) no farking complaining about it then ok?