Operation Mataki - SH75 to Akaroa

[Dave-]

and yet at a shorter llong weekend just passed there were what, 8? What say you about "tolerance" now?

In fact, I think all vehicles should be electronically governed so that they cannot exceed 100kph, and that if you do, satellites armed with lasers should be programmed to shoot you from orbit.

well I would look at an average and make a conclusion from that.

but considering without policing it might have been up to 4 million, so I think 8 is pretty good.

[oneofsix]

and yet at a shorter llong weekend just passed there were what, 8? What say you about "tolerance" now?

In fact, I think all vehicles should be electronically governed so that they cannot exceed 100kph, and that if you do, satellites armed with lasers should be programmed to shoot you from orbit.

one confused lad, if they are governed so you can't exceed 100k what need the lasers? Re purpose the lasers so that if they drop below 100k they are burnt to ash so following traffic can proceed unhindered.

[willytheekid]

The Govt drew the conclusion that lowering the tolerance had worked after that Easter you refer to, this just proves what everyone else warned. The tolerance is

A friggin men mate.

Mind you with a freeze on funding, and the Popo needing to find 200 million in spending cuts http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/nation...et-freeze-risk

...a 4k bullshit limit and the purchase of even more speeding cameras (that are proven NOT to effect peoples speed or driving standards...just there wallet), equals EASY MONEY for less outlay...just what the Govn't wants to see from them. (that would be the Popos boss!...do ya trust them??)

The new limit is a clear revenue grab that conflicts with the mechanical standards of vehicles in this country (Speedo & cruise control tollerances**), and the biggest impact it has had, is that most kiwi drivers are even more distracted because of it...watching the speedo more than the road now

....but as soon as we see a busy & wet holiday period...the sad truth will come out...this isn't about safety...never was!,its about money!...as bloody usual.

Wanna passively fight back?...don't accept the ticket!, give your details and politely ask the Popo to post it out (the admin costs more...fucks with there bottom line-as this is actually about money not safety...and yes, you CAN legally do this...but remember to be polite!, Popo's just doing there job following corporate orders...I mean Govn't orders)

{**The NZ AA are still arguing the fact that speedo's have an allowed mechanical tollerance of 8-10%, crusie control has a 6-8kph "float"...so if you have the crusie control set at 98kph, and the speedo is reading that...you can still be ticketed for "speeding"....when two standards/laws clash, theres a problem!}

[oneofsix]

Agreed Willy. I have seen stats from the UK which showed cameras increase crashes, popo reduce them. Think this is something to do with human reaction to person versus object. Anyhow if it was about safety they would be employing more popo not buying cameras, but then the public would want the popo to do general safety rather than just speed. Sounding a little bit like a that posts on here

[willytheekid]

Agreed Willy. I have seen stats from the UK which showed cameras increase crashes, popo reduce them. Think this is something to do with human reaction to person versus object. Anyhow if it was about safety they would be employing more popo not buying cameras, but then the public would want the popo to do general safety rather than just speed. Sounding a little bit like a that posts on here

very true!

I feel sorry for the Popo, less funding, more responsibility heaped on them everyday, and people thinking THEY are the ones introducing these revenue grabing laws ("cough..Akzle..cough").
Popo's do a great job, with very little funding and support...but sadly they are like the rest of us...if the boss says do it!...you have to do it regardless of personal belief.
I feel the Govn't needs to wake up and see the real issues...the bulshit legal system in this country!, repeat drink drivers walking out of court etc laughing!...all the Popos hard work undone by slimy smart arsed lawyers and a poor legal system that gives offenders more rights than the innocent.

As for speeding...4k over say's "close enough" but no danger here...10k over says not paying attention! and a possible accident due to lack of said attention.
But, the cold hard facts remain...the law is the law, and the cheapest way to "look" like your doing something about safety on NZ roads, is to lower the speed limits and tollerances!...driver education and fixing roads costs alot of money...getting a monkey to put a new speed sigh up costs bugger all!...once again, its about money!...not safety!

...just don't take it out on the average Popo, he's just doing his job enforcing the rules...not making them!

ps: I hope everyone had a great long weekend...I had to work...and it was damn busy! lol

[Scuba_Steve]

What would be the outcome? I put it to you that people are fundamentally not that pleasant, and that within five years there would be a dystopian Mad Max style society (or perhaps something along the lines of Carpenter's "Escape from New York"): some sort of dog eat dog, mob rule, violent surreal dystopia. Not the anarcho-socialist paradise of your dreams. People are not nice. And if they can exploit, or steal or rape or kill without fear of consequence, I put it to you that that is what they will do.

thoughts?

Sounds like you're well indoctrinated... You know the police weren't always round ay? & for the most part things worked pretty well without them. They were brought in as a form of control in sheeps clothing

[oneofsix]

Sounds like you're well indoctrinated... You know the police weren't always round ay? & for the most part things worked pretty well without them. They were brought in as a form of control in sheeps clothing

Actually some form of copper has been around longer than most like to believe. In tribal societies the chief/ king or what ever the title was chosen because they could beat the crap out of the others and therefore keep order. Then as the society grows and diversifies you get barons, lord and other underlings keeping control over their slice of the group down to the sheriffs of Robin hood fame and just before the police themselves were "invented" (evolved) there were the likes of the Beadles of London. The police removed a lot of the corruption that the older systems had but wherever political influence welds power corruption sneaks in, usually leads the way.

[Akzle]

No I can't but unlike you I haven't made any claims either way

but you seem so incensed!

Actually I can, it'll take me a few days to gather data and run the calcs but yes I can.

I have to get through exams first though.

no stress, we'll all be here waiting.
((unless i die from going too fast))

Has that been going long enough to draw a conclusion?

Didn't we have like 0 deaths at easter or something?

yup. whoop dee shit. it fluctuates all the time.
having more "drivers" on the road should not equal a rise in crash rates. that's implying that driving at all is just gambling and the higher the numbers the lower the odds of you surviving.
we also probably had 0 deaths over the 4 days before the public holiday, infact, pick any four days, there's a good chance no-one's gonna die, but then again, you might just get a dozen fuck it up. or a van full of backpackers rolling down a cliff. or. or. or...

I would suggest that it would be up to you to show that a society bereft of the social control mechanisms which you abhor would be better in any way than the admittedly imperfect society we have now.

What would be the outcome? I put it to you that people are fundamentally not that pleasant, and that within five years there would be a dystopian Mad Max style society (or perhaps something along the lines of Carpenter's "Escape from New York"): some sort of dog eat dog, mob rule, violent surreal dystopia. Not the anarcho-socialist paradise of your dreams. People are not nice. And if they can exploit, or steal or rape or kill without fear of consequence, I put it to you that that is what they will do.

thoughts?

you would suggest it's up to me. because that takes the onus off you. eh?
i would dearly love to believe in the inherent goodness of people, but yeah, history, hell, the 6 oclock news, proves elsewise. however. as conscious, sentient beings, why is it that we can't all work together, rather than focusing on our own corner, why can't the collective decide to move forward positively? there are certain things eveyone needs, possibly that everyone wants, the current system is not achieving this, so why not give another way a crack?
the police ARE NOT a social control mechanism. pretty much everyone on here has admitted to infringing some legislation or other, knowing that those scary police are out there, but, to most of us, it's a numbers game. why rego the bike if i'm not going to get caught more than twice a year? why not save myself some money eh.
if the police are effective, why does crime persist? why has the balance not tipped toward the "goodness" (as dictated by your government) why not just make everyone "police"?
they seem to be placed on some pedestal, given status as "above the citizens", and there is fuckall recourse when they do illegal search/seizure/shoot someone/break a kids neck/force old men to the ground/run someone off the road etc, it's just hush hushed up, and unless you're kim dotcom-wealthy, you aint gonna get shit.

(ps. i do not object to mad-maxery, infact, i'm hoping for it)

In fact, I think all vehicles should be electronically governed so that they cannot exceed 100kph, and that if you do, satellites armed with lasers should be programmed to shoot you from orbit.

just it, innit. if the govt was serioius about us drivng at a "safe" speed, new imports would be limited to 100k/h. i'm sure it's not that hard to plug a modern ECU in and restrict it., then over the next X years it would become a WOF requirement, innit?

well I would look at an average and make a conclusion from that.

but considering without policing it might have been up to 4 million, so I think 8 is pretty good.

you think 4 million people could kill themselves, if none of them were police?
you are truly deluded.

I feel sorry for the Popo, less funding, more responsibility heaped on them everyday, and people thinking THEY are the ones introducing these revenue grabing laws ("cough..Akzle..cough").
Popo's do a great job, with very little funding and support...but sadly they are like the rest of us...if the boss says do it!...you have to do it regardless of personal belief.
I feel the Govn't needs to wake up and see the real issues...the bulshit legal system in this country!, repeat drink drivers walking out of court etc laughing!...all the Popos hard work undone by slimy smart arsed lawyers and a poor legal system that gives offenders more rights than the innocent.

...just don't take it out on the average Popo, he's just doing his job enforcing the rules...not making them!

i don't take anything out on anyone, and if you read a bit more of what i post you'd see that i have a fair grasp of the system and well aware that the plod are just front line policy enforcement.
that does not excuse their cuntery. nor does it excuse their ignorance of the law (y'know. the policy they're supposed to enforce) and when i tell them that X, Y or Z is illegal and/or unlawful, and they proceed to cunt, it doesn't endear me to them any more.

the rest comes down to a massive difference of opinion (and experience?), i'd say there are 3 kinds of people: one's who think the cops are good (<15% ), one's who think they're bad (~40 % ), and one's who dont have an opinion (the balance %)
i'm firmly in the "they aint done shit for me" camp. every interaction with them has been either a) a pointless waste of everyone's time or b) negative.
this is both me as an "offender" and "victim of crime"

[Drew]

Pah: softie. if you were w a true Devils advocate you would say "The limit is the limit. there is no tolerance".

I do say that. The tollerence plays on peoples mind, and everyone tries to sit right at it as the limit.

100kph is the open road speed limit. That is the law. It is not hard for even the stupidest cunts to understand. But just to muddy it up, we'll let you go a bit over. FUCKED!

Sitting on 100k's is easy, should the unthinkable happen and it creeps up a couple, then Mr Plod might just waggle a finger at you and carry on his merry way. For Mr Plods dumb fuckin boss to say. "Mr plod will let you away with (insert arbitrary number here)kph", makes the "limit" a "guideline", and retards the country over will abuse it.

There is no argument against what I have just said. That someone might think paying fines for breaking the law is a cash grab, stop speeding to really 'stick it to the man'!

I ask about the budget, is because if you think about it they are breaking the law by entrapping us. They require the money to keep the country afloat, but they have made the laws that are being infringed to gather the funds. And round and round we go.

It's a clear conflict of interest, and if it's not illegal, it's sure as fuckin hell unethical!

[scumdog]

There is no argument against what I have just said. That someone might think paying fines for breaking the law is a cash grab, stop speeding to really 'stick it to the man'!

So many times have I said this - and have people listened?? -nooooo....

Been driving since 1968 (boy, am I getting tired...) and had one speeding ticket - sometimes driving/riding like a nana pays.

[Dave-]

{**The NZ AA are still arguing the fact that speedo's have an allowed mechanical tollerance of 8-10%, crusie control has a 6-8kph "float"...so if you have the crusie control set at 98kph, and the speedo is reading that...you can still be ticketed for "speeding"....when two standards/laws clash, theres a problem!}

People have got off for showing police cruise control settings too.

I find it hard to believe though that cruise control can be much more inaccurate than your speedo, I accept a little bit because the cruise control only does what the speedo says, but not 6 to 8km/h.

Can you post a citation?

yup. whoop dee shit. it fluctuates all the time.
having more "drivers" on the road should not equal a rise in crash rates. that's implying that driving at all is just gambling and the higher the numbers the lower the odds of you surviving.
we also probably had 0 deaths over the 4 days before the public holiday, infact, pick any four days, there's a good chance no-one's gonna die, but then again, you might just get a dozen fuck it up. or a van full of backpackers rolling down a cliff. or. or. or...

you think 4 million people could kill themselves, if none of them were police?
you are truly deluded.

No of course not dumbass, I'm mocking you with an equally as wild claim as your own.

We have this thing called an average, where we can say "in the last 4 weekends, 2 people died in the first weekend, 3 in the second, only 1 in the third and 4 died in the last weekend, so in total 10 people have died, and and as average, 2.5 people have died every weekend for the last 4 weekends" forget the fact that you have 0.5 of a person, honestly you're too stupid for me to explain rounding.

So yes, although we did have 1 long weekend where no one died, and yes we did have 1 shorter long weekend where 8 people died, the average will reflect this and in the long run I think you'll see it trending downwards.

So to summarise if you want to prove me wrong, the best thing you can do is go and wrap yourself around a tree to prove how little the police do, I'll make sure to add an nice +1 to my findings.

[Drew]

So many times have I said this - and have people listened?? -nooooo....

Been driving since 1968 (boy, am I getting tired...) and had one speeding ticket - sometimes driving/riding like a nana pays.

No one's going to listen to me either man. Except with me, they've got pretty good reason in precedent.

[FJRider]

No one's going to listen to me either man.

Of course we listen ... otherwise we can't argue with everything you say ...

[Dave-]

So I sold my road r6 a year ago, too many speeding tickets.

I drive a mx5 around these days (seriously great car) and race a newer r6 on the track.

Guess how many speeding tickets I've had since I did that?

I honestly drive around at the posted speed limit, sometimes 2 or 3km/h slower if it's raining or night time.

[Drew]

So I sold my road r6 a year ago, too many speeding tickets.

I drive a mx5 around these days (seriously great car) and race a newer r6 on the track.

Guess how many speeding tickets I've had since I did that?

I honestly drive around at the posted speed limit, sometimes 2 or 3km/h slower if it's raining or night time.

Sooooo, you used to be cool?