Spring's here, time to die

[Katman]

I feel this is a topic that can't be swept under the rug.

Unfortunately there's plenty here though who would like nothing more than that.

The reality is that until we start trying a little harder our piss poor statistics ain't going to improve any.

[Zedder]

I don't know what's specifically in a civil aviation report whether the specific crash data etc is there or whether it is more like a coroner report which becomes more of an overview of the incident and crash with recommendations attached, coroners reports are made public so, that bit there I know is similar.

Perhaps the level of detail and private information is the difference, in what's made public.

Air accident reports are quite detailed and more like an inquest with regard to their depth of information. Among other things, info on the history of the flight, aircraft and pilot and also meteorological data plus any facts about the terrain or environment are listed.

The report is overseen by an Air Accident Inspector who, unlike a coroner, isn't just concerned with medical reasons.

[Swoop]

And of course, you're certain that everyone on that ride was riding with absolute concentration on what they were doing?

"Riding with absolute concentration on what they were doing".
Strangely I was wondering what would be said/posted if you were killed in a motorcycle "accident". Suddenly there was a "Katman down" thread here and others would have belived you would have done everything possible to avoid being in that situation to begin with, but events occured. Possible? I think yes, since your demerits seem to indicate that you hadn't anticipated tax collectors to be in certain locations at certain times in the past, so possibility indicates that guano "can happen".

Lets hope it doesn't happen, as adding to our statistics wouldn't be a good look.

[Katman]

Possible? I think yes, since your demerits seem to indicate that you hadn't anticipated tax collectors to be in certain locations at certain times in the past

I think you're clutching at straws.

(And btw, I'm back to a clean license - thanks for asking).

[Swoop]

I think you're clutching at straws.

That was in all sincerity.
Possibilities exist, as much as we do not like to admit it.

[Howie]

Good question. The only info (stats etc) I've ever found was on the NZ Police site. There's no actual report on any specific incident that I could see though: https://www.police.govt.nz/sites/def...-2011-2015.pdf

You will find very few details of accidents involving private vehicles in the public domain.

Thanks. I fully understand about unpleasant details and concern for the families but it's interesting that the Civil Aviation Authority, on the other hand, allows free access to air accident reports (with irrelevant info deleted of course) in the interests of education. That's the point Newbould and I were making, it's about learning from the incident.

I don't know what's specifically in a civil aviation report whether the specific crash data etc is there or whether it is more like a coroner report which becomes more of an overview of the incident and crash with recommendations attached, coroners reports are made public so, that bit there I know is similar.

Perhaps the level of detail and private information is the difference, in what's made public.

You can find a lot of reports regarding Aviation, Rail, and Marine incidents on on the Transport accident investigation commission site. http://www.taic.org.nz/Home/tabid/36...Z/Default.aspx Most Reports take a couple of years to complete for serious incidents.

[jrandom]

your demerits seem to indicate that you hadn't anticipated tax collectors to be in certain locations at certain times in the past

Without actually knowing, it wouldn't surprise me if Katman's demerits were acquired the same way that I acquired all but ten of the demerit points that got me a 3-month licence suspension a few years back - while driving a car.

Amazing how easy it is to get sloppy while driving cars, innit?

[jrandom]

(And btw, I'm back to a clean license - thanks for asking).

After three years of a pristine licence, I'm back on 35 points after getting pinged doing 71 in a temporary 50.

(In a work ute on the SH1 Atiamuri bridge, shortly before construction started on the new one - the highway patrol fellas decided, after literally years of ignoring that temporary 50, to turn up and give it some enforcement to make everyone aware of the construction project's commencement. The demerit points burn even more because I have trouble disagreeing with the logic of that.)

[Crasherfromwayback]

Amazing how easy it is to get sloppy while driving cars, innit?

Back yourself to not have a serious accident whilst being 'sloppy' behind the wheel of a killing machine?

[jrandom]

Back yourself to not have a serious accident whilst being 'sloppy' behind the wheel of a killing machine?

I've learned a lot about driving cars in the last few years.



(Apart from, obviously, not slowing down all the way to the posted speed in temporary-speed-limit areas!)

[jrandom]

To be honest, I think that it's sensible to interpret any decision to operate a vehicle on the road as implying that the pilot is "backing themselves not to have a serious accident".

Surely that statement can't be argued with?

[Swoop]

Amazing how easy it is to get sloppy while driving cars, innit?

Any form of road transport.

Which generates the question.

[scumdog]

To be honest, I think that it's sensible to interpret any decision to operate a vehicle on the road as implying that the pilot is "backing themselves not to have a serious accident".

Surely that statement can't be argued with?

Pfft, they mostly don't even thnk enough to 'back themselves not to have a serious accident'.
WTF? 'serious accident'? - it should be ANY accident - mostly they aren't. ('Accidents' that is)

No more than when they're walking and 'back themselves not to fall', thye just don't think about it - a lot of the time they plain don't think.....

[Genestho]

Air accident reports are quite detailed and more like an inquest with regard to their depth of information. Among other things, info on the history of the flight, aircraft and pilot and also meteorological data plus any facts about the terrain or environment are listed.

The report is overseen by an Air Accident Inspector who, unlike a coroner, isn't just concerned with medical reasons.

Again, I'm not knowledgable about aviation crash investigations nor the level of details, but...... no, a coroner's not just concerned with medical reasons at all.

A coroners job, at an inquest is to find out "how can incidents like this be prevented from happening again", and then attaching recommendations at any level right up to legislative level now, lol.

Medical reasoning is yet another seperate report altogether - requiring a medical dictionary, which then becomes a small part of the overview from the coroners report, yes, let's call it the Inquest report.

The inquest /coronial report which as I posted earlier is usually available in the public domain is nowhere near, not even close to being as detailed as the complete crash investigation report. A coroners report is a summary of police, medical, crash analysis, pathology, statements, so it doesn't have the level of detail referred to in a crash investigation Not in my experience anyway.

[Bass]

IMHO we could learn a lot from how aviation accidents are handled. The CAA publishes a regular magazine which is circulated free to all registered aircraft owners. The last few pages of this mag contain summaries of all the NZ aviation accidents since the last publication. Names and places are deleted and only a succinct summary of the sequence of events given. No conclusions are drawn although they are usually self evident. You would be amazed at how many aviation incidents there are where aircraft are significantly damaged, but the people walk away.
I would like to see something similar for bikes on-line. It would be far too much to ask for all accidents to be included but just the fatals would be doable. The information is out there, just not readily available and as aviation has shown, sensibilities can be protected.


It seems to me that much of this thread is an argument between those who would have us respect the dead and those who insist that we ask the embarrassing questions in the hope that there is something to be learned. I am firmly with the latter group to the extent that if I ever die on a motorcycle, I want it investigated as clinically as possible and the results published with no thought given to my family's feelings. I have told them so too. I believe that feelings are tenuous things that pass with time and if the knowledge gained can help someone else survive, well that's way more important.