Spring's here, time to die

[FJRider]

As a mother, I have developed eyes in the back of my head, not sure if that helps

I just listen to the voices ...

[pritch]

To be honest, I think that it's sensible to interpret any decision to operate a vehicle on the road as implying that the pilot is "backing themselves not to have a serious accident".

Surely that statement can't be argued with?

On the contrary, the statement indicates a lack of even basic understanding of what is actually happening.

If you climb a high tree, look down and feel compelled to hold on tight, that's because evolution has taught us that a fall will hurt.
Nothing in the evolution of humans has prepared us for motor vehicles. Many (most) road users fail to link their actions with any possible consequences.

Combine that with the minimal skills of most NZ road users and be afraid. Be very afraid.

That way you may just survive the lottery...

[newbould]

IMHO we could learn a lot from how aviation accidents are handled. The CAA publishes a regular magazine which is circulated free to all registered aircraft owners. The last few pages of this mag contain summaries of all the NZ aviation accidents since the last publication. Names and places are deleted and only a succinct summary of the sequence of events given. No conclusions are drawn although they are usually self evident. You would be amazed at how many aviation incidents there are where aircraft are significantly damaged, but the people walk away.
I would like to see something similar for bikes on-line. It would be far too much to ask for all accidents to be included but just the fatals would be doable. The information is out there, just not readily available and as aviation has shown, sensibilities can be protected.


.

and
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/cr...orcyclists.pdf
and
http://www.transport.govt.nz/researc...s-2011-(1).pdf

are all useful and relevant. Perhaps Mr Kiwi could take this to motonz

[FJRider]

Many (most) road users fail to link their actions with any possible consequences.

Combine that with the minimal skills of most NZ road users and be afraid. Be very afraid.

If you think of those actions being possible factors in an accident ... it gives cause for thought ...

People that are afraid ... think more ...

On the road ... there is nothing that scares you more ... than the knowledge that your own ability and skill ... might not be enough to keep you alive.

[Genestho]

and
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/cr...orcyclists.pdf
and
http://www.transport.govt.nz/researc...s-2011-(1).pdf

are all useful and relevant. Perhaps Mr Kiwi could take this to motonz

Lol.

[Berries]

and
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/cr...orcyclists.pdf
and
http://www.transport.govt.nz/researc...s-2011-(1).pdf

are all useful and relevant. Perhaps Mr Kiwi could take this to motonz

The MOT document may contain some useful information/statistical breakdowns but doesn't go in to much detail. The other report is template driven rubbish - 100% of motorcycle crashes involve motorcycles apparently. Who'd a thunk it?

The problem is that the majority of crashes involving motorbikes are not investigated to a level that people on here are asking for, certainly nowhere near what the CAA produce. If it is fatal and the serious crash unit are involved then it is looked at in much greater detail. Otherwise it is luck of the draw as to what is recorded on the crash report and what goes in to producing the reports linked above. Unfortunately when you see what basic and obvious information can be missing from the crash report it doesn't give you much hope that a lot of analysis went in to it.

Considering that TPTB have made it appear that they care by releasing the Safer Motorcycling guide I am sure that if a request was made to the right person in the right tone a summary of all SCU or Coroners reports for all fatal motorcycle reports could be easily produced.

[Genestho]

The MOT document may contain some useful information/statistical breakdowns but doesn't go in to much detail. The other report is template driven rubbish - 100% of motorcycle crashes involve motorcycles apparently. Who'd a thunk it?

The problem is that the majority of crashes involving motorbikes are not investigated to a level that people on here are asking for, certainly nowhere near what the CAA produce. If it is fatal and the serious crash unit are involved then it is looked at in much greater detail. Otherwise it is luck of the draw as to what is recorded on the crash report and what goes in to producing the reports linked above. Unfortunately when you see what basic and obvious information can be missing from the crash report it doesn't give you much hope that a lot of analysis went in to it.

Considering that TPTB have made it appear that they care by releasing the Safer Motorcycling guide I am sure that if a request was made to the right person in the right tone a summary of all SCU or Coroners reports for all fatal motorcycle reports could be easily produced.

It doesn't even need a right tone, ANYONE can request the coronial info...there's links and stuff too.... http://www.justice.govt.nz/courts/co...-register-data

http://www.justice.govt.nz/courts/co...-coronial-data
http://www.justice.govt.nz/courts/co...-coronial-data

There's also requests under the Official Information Act. I'd wager SCU data is easy enough to get to as well

[Berries]

There's also requests under the Official Information Act. I'd wager SCU data is easy enough to get to as well

Well it is not as if 'they' are trying to hide anything, it is just that the information has never been put together in one package that might be of use.

[Genestho]

Well it is not as if 'they' are trying to hide anything, it is just that the information has never been put together in one package that might be of use.

Perzackery. I remember the info was even harder to track down back near 5 years ago, statistics were shocking too. I remember copying the jpeg '05 and '06 stats from the transport site and they were exactly the same lol.

They've definately gotten better at it (It being; bringing info into public domain). Maybe it's also a volume issue, how many aviation crashes vs road crashes need investigating...

[Bass]

Well it is not as if 'they' are trying to hide anything, it is just that the information has never been put together in one package that might be of use.

Bingo!
That is just one area where CAA are way ahead.
The other is that they just tell it like it was and make no attempt to apportion fault or blame

[James Deuce]

The MOT document may contain some useful information/statistical breakdowns but doesn't go in to much detail. The other report is template driven rubbish - 100% of motorcycle crashes involve motorcycles apparently. Who'd a thunk it?

The problem is that the majority of crashes involving motorbikes are not investigated to a level that people on here are asking for, certainly nowhere near what the CAA produce. If it is fatal and the serious crash unit are involved then it is looked at in much greater detail. Otherwise it is luck of the draw as to what is recorded on the crash report and what goes in to producing the reports linked above. Unfortunately when you see what basic and obvious information can be missing from the crash report it doesn't give you much hope that a lot of analysis went in to it.

Considering that TPTB have made it appear that they care by releasing the Safer Motorcycling guide I am sure that if a request was made to the right person in the right tone a summary of all SCU or Coroners reports for all fatal motorcycle reports could be easily produced.

Also bear in mind that first responders are attempting to gauge the status of an accident victim or two and the detail they are more interested in is how to extract those people from the situation before they die. The cop who ordered a helicopter for me was brilliant, and possibly saved my life as there is no telling how a 1.5hr ambulance ride with 10 broken ribs and fluctuating blood pressure would have gone. I've also seen SCU guys turn up to hospital to check up on people. Sometimes the accident detail comes second to making sure people are looked after properly, especially for people who have a large area to cover. They may bounce from accident to accident and often when they arrive people and vehicles have been moved for safety's sake, making it harder to work out what went on.

[jrandom]

I've gone three years without ticket too, but I admit it's mostly luck. Arguing that it is skill, is just more of your usual bullshit.

Hmmm. I'll try and be more precise than that. Tickets are a red herring; I didn't say anything about 'skill' reducing tickets (although, of course, if you don't break the law, you won't get ticketed - right?) I'm arguing that:

- Skill (ability to control a machine, and ability to think about what's going on around you) is inversely proportionate to the chance of binning on the road.

- ... yeah, that's about it.

The above seems such a truism that I'm not sure what else there is to say, other than everyone calling me a cunt. Which should be old news, anyhow.

[jrandom]

Nothing in the evolution of humans has prepared us for motor vehicles.

This is true. But we have a lot of very trainable flexibility. We didn't evolve to play the piano, either, but it's amazing what humans can do if they put their minds to it.

Many (most) road users fail to link their actions with any possible consequences.

Yeah. That would be humans not putting their minds to it, I guess.

[oneofsix]

Also bear in mind that first responders are attempting to gauge the status of an accident victim or two and the detail they are more interested in is how to extract those people from the situation before they die. The cop who ordered a helicopter for me was brilliant, and possibly saved my life as there is no telling how a 1.5hr ambulance ride with 10 broken ribs and fluctuating blood pressure would have gone. I've also seen SCU guys turn up to hospital to check up on people. Sometimes the accident detail comes second to making sure people are looked after properly, especially for people who have a large area to cover. They may bounce from accident to accident and often when they arrive people and vehicles have been moved for safety's sake, making it harder to work out what went on.

Your last point is a big telling factor in the difference between aviation crash investigation and road crash investigation. I guess there is pressure on aviation to clear the scene so "normality" can return but they seems to have days as opposed to on the road where they have have minutes, sometimes those minutes stretch to hours but within 24 hours. And there are no black boxes, which would be a double edged sword.

[SMOKEU]

So the NZTA says that on a motorcycle you're 23 times more likely to get pwned than a cager over the same distance.