Spring's here, time to die

[oneofsix]

So the NZTA says that on a motorcycle you're 23 times more likely to get pwned than a cager over the same distance.

23 times now, any advances on 23? Do I here 30?

[arcane12]

So the NZTA says that on a motorcycle you're 23 times more likely to get pwned than a cager over the same distance.

Ah stats. You fickle mistress. Of course it has nothing to do with the types of people who choose to ride at all. Just bikes are evil, grr grr grr. Of course I am not saying you aren't more likely to get seriously hurt/die on a bike vs car, but the mode of transport is only one factor.

PS.

As I saw on some stats recently, I will be twice as likely to die on a bike once I hit 40, that I am now.

[jrandom]

So the NZTA says that on a motorcycle you're 23 times more likely to get pwned than a cager over the same distance.

Sounds about right.

[Bassmatt]

So the NZTA says that on a motorcycle you're 23 times more likely to get pwned than a cager over the same distance.

Sweet. By my calculations I now have millions of worry free km's of car driving ahead of me.

[BoristheBiter]

Amazing how easy it is to get sloppy while driving cars, innit?

Funny that as I have found since riding on the road my driving has got better.

[jrandom]

Funny that as I have found since riding on the road my driving has got better.

Yes, most folk experience that. Good onya, keep it up.

[Zedder]

Your last point is a big telling factor in the difference between aviation crash investigation and road crash investigation. I guess there is pressure on aviation to clear the scene so "normality" can return but they seems to have days as opposed to on the road where they have have minutes, sometimes those minutes stretch to hours but within 24 hours. And there are no black boxes, which would be a double edged sword.

'Morning Six. From what I understand, there is no pressure on aviation crash investigators to clear the scene. They, like police, have the authority to close off access to the whole area if necessary while they work. A lot of aircraft accidents though happen in isolated areas. Usually, only commercial aircraft carry black boxes so it does take longer with private aircraft accidents due to lack of data.

An ex colleague of mine arrived at the scene of a fatality early this year only minutes after the crash and was told by the cop who arrived to manage the scene it would be 3 hours minimum before the road was open again even after emergency services had carried out their duties which happened within 10 minutes. He said one side of the road was actually clear and the vehicles were over almost on to the shoulder so he took the 3 hours as being standard investigation procedure before the tow trucks were called in.

[oneofsix]

'Morning Six. From what I understand, there is no pressure on aviation crash investigators to clear the scene. They, like police, have the authority to close off access to the whole area if necessary while they work. A lot of aircraft accidents though happen in isolated areas. Usually, only commercial aircraft carry black boxes so it does take longer with private aircraft accidents due to lack of data.

An ex colleague of mine arrived at the scene of a fatality early this year only minutes after the crash and was told by the cop who arrived to manage the scene it would be 3 hours minimum before the road was open again even after emergency services had carried out their duties which happened within 10 minutes. He said one side of the road was actually clear and the vehicles were over almost on to the shoulder so he took the 3 hours as being standard investigation procedure before the tow trucks were called in.

yes we are seeing more of that where as in the past it would have been get the victims out, throw around some paint marks and get the road cleared. Whilst the SCU do try to take more time over what happened, how, there is the pressure of the traffic waiting for that 3 hours and commercial implications to it which you don't have with an aircraft in some remote location. Even if the road is remote chances are it is the only access and therefore the pressure of cutting people off.
The other point is we are still in the blame the driver phase whereas aviation seems to have moved to the open question of what happened and how can we help prevent a re-occurrence , can't fix the pilot but we may be able to assist them type thinking.

[Zedder]

yes we are seeing more of that where as in the past it would have been get the victims out, throw around some paint marks and get the road cleared. Whilst the SCU do try to take more time over what happened, how, there is the pressure of the traffic waiting for that 3 hours and commercial implications to it which you don't have with an aircraft in some remote location. Even if the road is remote chances are it is the only access and therefore the pressure of cutting people off.
The other point is we are still in the blame the driver phase whereas aviation seems to have moved to the open question of what happened and how can we help prevent a re-occurrence , can't fix the pilot but we may be able to assist them type thinking.

There's hope for us all Six.

[FJRider]

The other point is we are still in the blame the driver phase whereas aviation seems to have moved to the open question of what happened and how can we help prevent a re-occurrence , can't fix the pilot but we may be able to assist them type thinking.

To my knowledge ... the van driver hasn't been charged ... or even stated they will be likely to do so.

The only people that have attributed blame to him ... were people that weren't there, and don't know what actually happened ... at the time.

Blame based entirely on information provided by various media.

[oneofsix]

To my knowledge ... the van driver hasn't been charged ... or even stated they will be likely to do so.

The only people that have attributed blame to him ... were people that weren't there, and don't know what actually happened ... at the time.

Blame based entirely on information provided by various media.

Driver was in a general sense in that discussion and used in a way that could also apply to the riders or the rumoured "other" vehicle. I was not saying blame had been attributed but that the focus will be on all the vehicle operators (see driver is much easier) and other factors are often overlooked or not given enough weight in hope that somehow we can change humans. I was using driver in the sense that aviation uses pilot.

[FJRider]

Driver was in a general sense in that discussion and used in a way that could also apply to the riders or the rumoured "other" vehicle. I was not saying blame had been attributed but that the focus will be on all the vehicle operators (see driver is much easier) and other factors are often overlooked or not given enough weight in hope that somehow we can change humans. I was using driver in the sense that aviation uses pilot.

When the SCU is involved ... the cause of the accident is determined before any charges are laid. In some cases ... all vehicle "operators" involved may/can be charged if they were in part responsible for the accident. Even if it's just "driving without due care" ...

The police usual statement is after less serious accidents is .. "charges are likely" ... (unless guilt is obvious to the officers there at the time)

[oneofsix]

When the SCU is involved ... the cause of the accident is determined before any charges are laid. In some cases ... all vehicle "operators" involved may/can be charged if they were in part responsible for the accident. Even if it's just "driving without due care" ...

The police usual statement is after less serious accidents is .. "charges are likely" ... (unless guilt is obvious to the officers there at the time)

But see you are coming back to load all the blame on the driver where as aviation will also fix the contributing factors like control panel layout or approach vector, translate to road users as road layout, and aviation fix them much quicker than the roads etc are fixed even though the death rate on the roads is so much higher.

[FJRider]

But see you are coming back to load all the blame on the driver where as aviation will also fix the contributing factors like control panel layout or approach vector, translate to road users as road layout, and aviation fix them much quicker than the roads etc are fixed even though the death rate on the roads is so much higher.

I think that's because more idiots are on the roads ... than in the air ...

In serious aviation accidents ... blame isn't as urgent as the guilty are usually dead.

Less serious accidents/incidents ... the guilty know already, and usually few of the general public know anything has occurred .... until it is reported in the medias.

Either on the road or in the air ... if the vehicle operators choose to ignore any rules or recommendations ... until they are reported, or an incident occurs ... those operators will continue to ignore the rules and recommendations if they choose.

Company policy's are not always law ... (on the roads or in the air) and dismissal may be the only end result in such cases.

[Katman]

where as aviation will also fix the contributing factors like control panel layout

Be careful what you wish for.

They may start producing motorcycles that operate themselves without any need for rider input.