Group bike-to-bike comms: Anybody out there?

[sootie]

I am aware that quite a few riders are playing around with limited range person to person Bluetooth systems, and that Honda put out a 27MHz AM system (actually illegal in NZ) for their Goldwings. Have also seen several posts on this forum including UHF gear criticism (eg Pinfold supplied). Lets forget the fairy tales & hopefuls; who is regularly using "partyline" style long range bike to bike comms with say 3 bikes or more? What are you using? What are your experiences with it?

I am in a small group (around 8 riders) who all use a variety of compatible PRS based UHF comms gear. Please have a look at my album. We have had incredible problems with reliability, but bloodymindedness has just about won the day. Some of the group (including me) don't even like group rides on busy highways without good comms anymore. So .... what are your views on the whole scene now days?

[Gremlin]

As you say, Bluetooth systems limit connections to about 4, but they do work well and full 2 way.

I have a GME TX4600 installed on my bike, UHF PRS, but haven't managed to lure many mates into using it. Did use it between 2 of us on a South Island trip, certainly made things easier, than stopping and yelling at each other.

[sootie]

As you say, Bluetooth systems limit connections to about 4, but they do work well and full 2 way.

I have a GME TX4600 installed on my bike, UHF PRS, but haven't managed to lure many mates into using it. Did use it between 2 of us on a South Island trip, certainly made things easier, than stopping and yelling at each other.

I am not familiar with that particular radio, but will look it up for my own interest (Aussie made I think?) One of our group uses a Baehr comms system (very good) which I think you have mentioned you use in posts. I suspect there may be quite a few riders in a similar situation to you with regard to someone to talk to!

If you are ever in the Waipu area during the week, the Mill somewhere near uses channel 14. Have had a chat to them on the way thru! Otherwise our guys talk over quite big distances at times, and after September we should all be back on the road again. We have settled on PRS channel 27 for no particular reason. We are spread all over Auckland. Cheers

[Gremlin]

Yes, GME is Aussie, they use the same UHF frequencies. Yes, I do have a Baehr, Verso XL I think, 3 inputs, 2 priority. CB Radio is priority 2, after the GPS.

Range is subject to what you're using and how... the ground plane is usually the hardest on a bike, given the few flat metal surfaces. Usually with the walkie talkie you're lying them down under the seat or something, which limits the range.

With the transceiver, it's mounted on the bars, so I can adjust channel and volume on the fly, and have an aerial mounted near the rear, which does give very good range.

[sootie]

Yes, GME is Aussie, they use the same UHF frequencies. Yes, I do have a Baehr, Verso XL I think, 3 inputs, 2 priority. CB Radio is priority 2, after the GPS.

Range is subject to what you're using and how... the ground plane is usually the hardest on a bike, given the few flat metal surfaces. Usually with the walkie talkie you're lying them down under the seat or something, which limits the range.

With the transceiver, it's mounted on the bars, so I can adjust channel and volume on the fly, and have an aerial mounted near the rear, which does give very good range.

I just checked - nice radio - full 5Watts of output. I use an old Pinfold set (heavily modified) because I have full service info & lots of spares for them. Mine is wired in to a collinear aerial at the back which gives about 6db of gain by reducing the sky signal. It incorporates a ferule stub towards the base of the assembly which provides a simulated earth plane for the aerial to work against. (Photo in my Comms Album). (They sell these aerials for Off Road 4WD use.)

[Flip]

CB and PRS is only the tip of the iceberg.

I have a 50 watt 10-12m Free band ham CB in the sidecar with a 5 foot whip. On a good day I can talk to other Ham/CBers as far away as the USA.

I have a Blue ant blue tooth head set that works well. I also have a software defined handi-walkie that I have programmed to listen to the vile RF emanations from the rozzas. The handi walkie also hooks into all the ham repeaters and also the linked up National Repeater system. I have also programmed in all the PRS frequencies also.

[sootie]

CB and PRS is only the tip of the iceberg.

I have a 50 watt 10-12m Free band ham CB in the sidecar with a 5 foot whip. On a good day I can talk to other Ham/CBers as far away as the USA.

I have a Blue ant blue tooth head set that works well. I also have a software defined handi-walkie that I have programmed to listen to the vile RF emanations from the rozzas. The handi walkie also hooks into all the ham repeaters and also the linked up National Repeater system. I have also programmed in all the PRS frequencies also.

Thank you! That is an interesting reply. (I wondered if I was going to get any more actually)
I am a radio amateur with a full call also by the way, but not active in that area at the moment.
I guess I am trying to find out if there are others around who regularly ride with group comms between a number of bikes within a 5km range (or usually rather less actually). The answer seems to be no!
(i have previously mentioned the Goldwing boys.)

I am a bit fascinated that Bluetooth seems to be flavour of the month at present, and does not really offer bikers much at all. The guys I ride with now all agree with this, & even some of the US Biker Comms Review sites seem to side with me:
http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcyc...comparison.htm (towards the end)

The amateur 2m and 70cm bands and the linked repeaters would work perfectly for bikers, but the PRS frequencies are legal for those without an amateur callsign, which would be the majority of bike riders.
I think the real answer to the lack of PRS use is the lack of reasonably priced reliable gear for bikers, but I would love to hear further comment on this.

[FLUB]

Also licenced ham (ZL4JWJ) though not currently active. Never thought of rigging anything up on on the bike though. May have to dig out the FT50. Interesting thread.

[Flip]

I brought a fiberglass topbox specifically for the purpose of installing a Ham set on the harley, but havent got round to it yet. I am also not sure what way to go as far as the radio goes, 2/70 set, a 10-12m set like I have in the landrover and sidecar or a full noise ham style set.

The great thing about the national link is that it works in most places and covers the whole country. The wee handitalkies are fine if you can see the repeater but a high gain aerial and a bit more power is very usefull to have. I know that from home home I can trigger all the 2m/70cm repeaters from Gore to Timaru.

We are heading up to the HOG nationals in AK in Feb and will take both a miniture Yeasu shortwave set and my handitalkie with me. I haven't got round to programming in the North island repeater frequencies yet.

One thing I recently found out was my new low cost handitalki made a kick ass PRS radio, once I programmed all the PRS frequencies. It cost the same as a good PRS but is packed with features and transmitted and recieved a much better signal.

I like the idea of a blue tooth to a handiwalkie, but the single wired earphone with a mic works fine on the bike for me.

[sootie]

I must admit, that I do miss the amateur radio callsign ettiquette when using 2 way radio with other bikers. Like police, military and aviation usage, it seemed to roll of the tongue in a very helpful introductory way. I am still struggling to make Christian names work as well! A lost cause for me I think.

I do not like engaging in remote communications while driving or riding. At least one very senior policeman in the US agrees with me. Never mind what your hand is holding or not; where is your mind? At least with simplex (1 way) comms, an argument has to proceed like a well run formal meeting. I really dislike sharing the road with a guy on his cell phone in in a four wheel drive who is gradually raising his voice to drown out abuse from a dissatisfied customer, or supplier. Watch the eyes; I reckon I have had to dodge a few like this - and it is legally OK! (By the way, I can't recall our group ever having an arguement while riding.)

With this thread, I am really more interested in quite short range comms, simplex, and between groups of riders all sharing the same environment. Radio chatter can get a bit like KB forums on the roll (!), but a lot of the time, the channel is silent, and most conversation relates to safety issues in the broadest sense. eg: when is the next comfort stop, I need fuel, where is lunch today, stopping for a moment to adjust my helmet strap & will catch you up, patch of loose gravel coming up, watch out for this idiot overtaking us all as he has been sitting 1m behind my number plate.

The most important comms, is leader to tail end charlie to verify that all bikes have made it through a busy intersection. If not, the front bikes stop & wait & know to do so. This definitely saves speeding tickets and maybe lives! Very occasionally we do give a warning about radar up ahead (who said that?) I will be honest here.

If you spoke to any of the riders in our group who has used group comms for more than say 10 rides (there are a few simple procedures you need to get used to) he would tell you that it is not only more fun, but that he feels safer now days.

I will be the first to admit that comms are a waste of time for solo riders, and only moderately useful for 2 riders - things are just simpler.

Thanks for the ideas, but,
Is there anybody else out there?

[Hitcher]

Buy a Goldwing. The CB radios on those allow Wingnuts to chat ceaselessly to each other.

[sootie]

Buy a Goldwing. The CB radios on those allow Wingnuts to chat ceaselessly to each other.

I did mention Goldwings in my original intro, and yes we do chat sometimes on quiet stretches of road.
(I actually know a few bikers who dam it all up & wait for the next coffee stop! Is it a bit like not being able to have a pee when you want it?)

Anyway, thanks for the question; I am quite depressed by the answer I am getting that almost no-one outside the Goldwing brigade actually understands the huge fun & safety advantages that party-line comms offer a group of riders. It was actually a Goldwing rider that got me started on this.

[clint640]

What sort of connector are you using to plug in your helmet?

I've set up a couple of 2W Uniden PRS on mine & the girlfriends bikes, chargers & PTT on the bars wired in, passive noise cancelling mics, all works ok, range is adequate, but I'm having issues with the 4 pin helmet connection, tried mini DIN 1st, flaky & easy to bend pins, then hacked up some usb leads, thought that might work better & still be compact, but it's still flaky, I'm about to try 2x RCA plugs for a bigger more positive connection. This is using it all road & all weather so a bit hard on gear.

Can't help with the multiple bike thing but if everybody has a reliable PRS radio setup I don't see why it shouldn't work well. Clarity at speed would be the biggest issue, I got our noise cancelling mic inserts from Mike Pinfold & they work ok to about 80km/h, sketchy above that but our dual sport helmets are pretty noisy. I think some sort of active noise cancelling is needed & that would be what separates my $150 homebrew setup from the $1200 Baehr stuff. If we were joining some mates for a long trip I'd probably suggest they get some cheap PRS radios & earpieces so they could at least listen in.

Cheers
Clint

[sootie]

What sort of connector are you using to plug in your helmet?

I've set up a couple of 2W Uniden PRS on mine & the girlfriends bikes, chargers & PTT on the bars wired in, passive noise cancelling mics, all works ok, range is adequate, but I'm having issues with the 4 pin helmet connection, tried mini DIN 1st, flaky & easy to bend pins, then hacked up some usb leads, thought that might work better & still be compact, but it's still flaky, I'm about to try 2x RCA plugs for a bigger more positive connection. This is using it all road & all weather so a bit hard on gear.

Can't help with the multiple bike thing but if everybody has a reliable PRS radio setup I don't see why it shouldn't work well. Clarity at speed would be the biggest issue, I got our noise cancelling mic inserts from Mike Pinfold & they work ok to about 80km/h, sketchy above that but our dual sport helmets are pretty noisy. I think some sort of active noise cancelling is needed & that would be what separates my $150 homebrew setup from the $1200 Baehr stuff. If we were joining some mates for a long trip I'd probably suggest they get some cheap PRS radios & earpieces so they could at least listen in.

Cheers
Clint

Hi Clint - I am just delighted to hear from you & help you any way I can! I have directly & indirectly set up quite a number of these UHF bike to bike comms units, and I am on a mission to see them used more. I just can't do it all myself, so I really do want to liaise with others who are having a go themselves. I started with Pinfold gear, have had huge reliability issues but we are really winning this battle now. Mike Pinfold & I know each other (electronically) quite well & are on friendly terms, but we beg to differ on how we view some things.

First of all, let's acknowlege that bike to bike comms really requires gear built to the highest military spec available. We can't afford this, so we have to try to ruggedise cheap consumer gear so that it does not fail every 30 hours or so of use. We just have to live with that & my group does. we are getting a lot better at this!

Uniden gear is better than the Tseun Shing stuff, but I do have full service data for the latter, and so I actually use both. Very little experience with other brands of gear so far sorry.

I have had huge issues with plastic insert jack plugs & Jaycar jackplugs. Every single one of them, Nolan helmet, Tseun Shing radios, & on some Uniden radio models have all failed within 10,000 kms & usually a lot less. Please see my Album on Bike Comms.

For Helmet connectors, we mostly use the Pinfold style miniature DIN as supplied on Pinfold gear (not the ones from Jaycar!). These have all been OK when wired properly. Some of the other guys have trouble with this - it is demanding.
Snap on the USB connectors! One of our group started using these, and I am also going to as I run out of the miniature DINs. We just cut up the USB extension leads from the $2 shop! These two arrangements have proved adequate for helmet use so far, but they must be wired carefully & robustly to last.

I have pretty much cracked the helmet wind noise thing, but this post is long enough, so shall let you suggest where you would like to go.

[clint640]

I could see that connecting via the 3.5mm jack into the radio would be problematic from the start so that just stays plugged in & covered up along with the power feed. All other connections apart from to the helmet are soldered in. I think to have any sort of decent system you are going to have to spend some time wiring it in. I got a pack with 2x radios, 12V chargers, speaker mics etc. Used the speakers out of the spkr mic in the helmets.

I even splashed out on gold plated usb extensions from dick smith for the helmet wire, they worked ok at first but started crapping out after not too much use. I think the dust has killed them. They are all nicely soldered & heatshrunk in too so no worries at that end. Soldering in mini-DINs was driving me nuts, fiddly damn things. I think I'll try 2xRCA next, cheap & readily available, having each line 'round the opposite way should make them easy to attach wearing gloves.

Be interested to know what you do for noise cancelling. If I could wire a little black box inline somewhere so the system is usable at 100+ km/h that would be pretty groovy.

Even just with 2 people comms is quite useful, we do a bit of exploring on our adventures & 2 sets of eyes are better than 1 when trying to find that obscure track/ faded sign/ nice cafe.

Cheers
Clint