Vehicle license reform. Danger and opportunity for bikers

[Conquiztador]

Thanks for the link. Have done a submission online:

1. Warning period of 2 weeks if WOF or Rego expired then automatic fine if not fixed in 7 days
2. Sliding scale of fines - why fine me the same when my rego/wof has just expired as the prick who has driving around for 12 months with no rego or wof
3. One lot of ACC fees per individual. As others have said why should I be gouged for ACC just because I own a car, a van and a bike. I can only use one at a time.

Disagree with #1: If I do not get WOF and not using vehicle, surely that is not a offence???
Disagree with #2: How do you know that he/she has been driving around at all? Vehicle could have been sitting in garage broken...
Agree with #3.

But well done for submission!

[scumdog]

Disagree with #1: If I do not get WOF and not using vehicle, surely that is not a offence???
Disagree with #2: How do you know that he/she has been driving around at all? Vehicle could have been sitting in garage broken...
Agree with #3.

But well done for submission!

No1 - how is anybody ever going to know if you're not using the vehicle?
No2 the same.

So how would you ever get a ticket?

(Assuming Zamian is talking about if you use the car on the road..)

You trollin' or what??

[CookMySock]

Me thinks you need to do some thinking and some learning of history. No government willingly gave those rights, they were won by the people, just like the gays, the Hikoi of Dame Cooper, votes for woman, votes for non-land owning whites (Maori's had the vote before them even if they weren't allowed in the pubs).

History is bunkum. These are inalienable rights I (and you) already have. Simply say no, and when the magistrate asks for jurisdiction, tell him you don't. Easy.

Waste of time talking about this on KB tho.

[davereid]

here's the biggest problems... not all motors are vehicles. Electrics get a free ride, hybrids get a subsidised ride & what about LPG, should you pay for the road when you BBQ or should they too get a free ride???
Fairest system by far is everything on RUC's you use you pay, simple easy

The system already has provision for vehicles that don't pay ACC levies on fuel, so no change there, although of course the owners of those vehicles may actually be better off with a fuel based levy. So LPG, diesel, electric, ethanol already has a solution in place and working. In fact a project to modernise (increase prices ?) has just been completed by the NZTA.

But even if it were not already in place, there is no problem with electric vehicles. Within a couple of years most homes will have smart meters - so every appliance including your car can potentailly be charged at a different rate.

Third party insurance regularly finds its way to the table and is lauged off, basically because it has no advantages.

(1) We already have higher rates of insurance than most countries that require it.
(2) Our Insurance is voluntary, thus is cheaper.
(3) Even if you only have thrid party, most insurance companies will pay for damage to your vehicle if you can identify the at fault party. My cover is for full value, but even AA offer $4K of cover this way.

So if YOU have third party cover, you dont need to wory about the other chap anyway.
(4) Payout rates drop under compulsory schemes as everyone disputes everything

Anyway its all a diversion.

MOT have put fuel based taxes on the table. With support from a wide section of NZ they will have to consider them. In this case we have to remember we will still be on our side of the table after the election. This government may not. MOT will listen just not very well.

RUCs are very fair, but they havent been offered as an option, and it may be harder to get them there.

[MSTRS:Me]

The reality is (and always will be) is that, everytime it is perceived that motorcyclist are getting a raw deal, a bleat thread is started...words/words and more words.

09' was the climactic point, but from then on.....interest wained dramatically.
The topic may be worth a discussion at the very least, but nothing will ever be done about it.

Everyone should listen to this man. He KNOWS what he is talking about.
There were quite of few who worked REAL hard on this back then, including me. But no-one did more than Maha. Or Mom. No-one.

The rest of you?
SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES!!!

[Zamiam]

Disagree with #1: If I do not get WOF and not using vehicle, surely that is not a offence???
Disagree with #2: How do you know that he/she has been driving around at all? Vehicle could have been sitting in garage broken...
Agree with #3.

But well done for submission!

You're right but I also put

4. Continuous licencing etc. should be discontinued. I'me only breaking the law if I'm using the vehicle somewhere it is required to be registered. I shouldn't have to pay for something I'm not using.

[p.dath]

...
Its not in scope but if I had my way every driver/rider would be insured much the same as in the UK. No insurance you get towed and walk. However only if there was a reduction in registration costs.

This was look at in the previous Safer Journeys submissions. It turned out that 95% of the vehicles on the road were already insured. Something like 4.9% of the remainder were not insurable (drive had been disqualified, vehicle ordered off road, etc). So compulsory insurance would only affect .1% of the vehicles.

Then they looked at the cost of implementing such a scheme to force those 0.1% of vehicles to get insurance, and it turned out everything was going to be paying more to run the scheme, and the benefit from the scheme was minimal. So the idea was scraped.


I generally support a 100% fuel based levy, but you have to remember changes to the law can stay in force for decades sometimes. Now with this in mind, consider the increasing likelihood of their being vehicles that don't need fuel (e,g. electric) - meaning they would bypass the levy, and the increasing chances of vehicles becoming more and more fuel efficient - which would necessitate the need for fuel price levy increases as the same amount of money still needs to be collected.

[Conquiztador]

So how would you ever get a ticket?

Yes, I can see how that would keep you awake

[Maha]

Everyone should listen to this man. He KNOWS what he is talking about.
There were quite of few who worked REAL hard on this back then, including me. But no-one did more than Maha. Or Mom. No-one.

The rest of you?
SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES!!!

Humbling words said there John I must say.....

We put together four protest rides in the Auckland area from late 09' and the months following.
We were trying to gauge the level of support with the issue/s at hand.
With each ride, the numbers got less and less....from 360 bikes on the first ride to less the 100 by the last.
There were thousands of tree huggers (and like minded people) ..THOUSANDS! marching up Queen st the same day as our last protest ride.
We had to wait for the until the marching was well clear...we were hardly noticed at all, unlike the first blast up Q/st some months prior.
On that occassion, we bike cops at intersections and lot of bystanders taking pictures.

Honestly, I could understand the dwindling support of said rides, which is why the next phase of the 'movement' seemed such a great idea.
What I learned from the whole excerise was, you dont need anything like what we had going....
All you need is 'Support from like minded People'...(the public)...bikers alone dont have the numbers.
Not every mining protester is a miner right?....
They are the public who want to say NO and have had enough of being dictated to time and time again.
This 'Vehicle license reform' involves all road users, not just bikers
I wonder if bikers would get out and support car enthusiasts if they decide to do something about it?

[reggie1198]

...and a thick foreskinned head.

Corrected.....

[MSTRS:Me]

Humbling words said there John I must say.....

Perhaps. But still true.

I wonder if bikers would get out and support car enthusiasts if they decide to do something about it?

Don't make me laugh. Most of them can't even agree on what a motorcycle is...and it goes downhill from there.

[FuriousD]

So is anyone actually going to do anything? cause if so, as long as its on the north island, I'm in!

[Akzle]

So is anyone actually going to do anything? cause if so, as long as its on the north island, I'm in!

yes: i'm going to continue to ride and drive unregistered vehicles and make the life of any person who talks to me about it a PITA for MONTHS.

[rastuscat]

The reality is they are aware of the good reasons for a petrol based levy.

That's why they have tried hard early in the document to discredit it.

They have given us a window here. By attempting to discredit it, they have put it on the table, and actually shown some of their cards.

We get the chance to discredit right back at them.

The cost of the current system must be horrendous.

The NZTA have to print labels and post them to every one. They have to run a computer system to keep track of who has licenced, who has not and who is late. They have operate an enforcement and debt collection system, and its quoted in the document as resulting in thousands of fines that are not paid.

Even the cost of the call center that deals with licencing etc must be millions and millions of dollars.

Add to that the cost of the proposed rebates ACC want, and the system is very top heavy.

We need to find out a way to get our hands on those numbers. This can be done by OIA, but the closing date for submissions is very close to the time it takes for an OIA to be answered. Plus NZTA always stall my OIAs now, as I have made it to the troublemaker category.

Anyone want to help formulate some good questions, and get them off to NZTA/ MOT / ACC ?

Happy to be a conduit if you are on their naughty list.

[scumdog]

yes: i'm going to continue to ride and drive unregistered vehicles and make the life of any person who talks to me about it a PITA for MONTHS.

They tell you that you're being a PITA???

I've found generally those who imagine they're a PITA or hard-man are actually a source of ridicule and mirth.

But don't tell them that...our fun would be gone