Suzuki vs Kenworth

[James Deuce]

I think the issue is that we don't crash enough to practice it properly.

[Katman]

Aye, but it's not available all the time. And anyone claiming it is or should be doesn't know very much about how humans work.

It's nowhere near simple.

Bullshit. Place yourself in a position of having to develop 'out of the ordinary' skills and it's actually quite a simple process.

You just have to want to do it.

You sound too lazy though.

[Ocean1]

I think the issue is that we don't crash enough to practice it properly.

That's what the 525's for. And I've got that fucker down good.

[onearmedbandit]

Aye, but it's not available all the time. And anyone claiming it is or should be doesn't know very much about how humans work.

It's nowhere near simple.

Of course it isn't. It's about the mindset. I've used this analogy before, but I'll share it again.

Years ago when I started car sales we had a meeting one morning, and the boss stated 'everyone who comes on the yard is a buyer'. I, knowing it all, argued otherwise and gave legitimate examples of people that weren't buying but were on the yard. I'll never forget the stare he gave me. I wondered why, and later it dawned on me. I have to consider everyone that walks onto the yard as a buyer, despite what I think, to increase the chances of selling a car. And sure, not everyone is a buyer, but I damn well consider everyone a buyer until I've exhausted every tool I have to get them to buy.

Now apply the same thing to bike riding. If I approach every 'situation' with the right mindset, and employ all of the correct tools, then I'll stand a far better chance of not crashing. These tools include, having focus on what I'm doing, knowing my surroundings, knowing my position, even knowing my own bike. Sure not every time you'll have all of these tools at the right time right place, but with the correct mindset you'll have a far better chance of getting home that day as the same way you left.

[tri boy]

my work here is done..........................



















Bike shopping for the Hitchers very soon methinks

[Fatjim]

Ah this cracks me up.

I've been watching this thread, waiting for Katman to post. After a few posts abusing or ridiculing KM for his posts from the usual tossers suspects, he finally posts and puts it Hitcher that something could've been done better resulting in no crash, to which H agrees.

Now H is no dummy, and has been riding for years. He knows that he could've handled the situation better. But not every rider knows this. Yet whenever we have a biker down thread instead of helping the rider, whoever they are, better understand how to avoid a future accident, all we do is say things like 'bummer' and 'get well soon bro'. Sure these make the rider feel better; but only while reading the comments. Instead they could be feeling better for a long time if they begin to understand that they are ultimately in control of their well-being and therefore stand a better chance of not having an accident. Was the truck driver in the wrong in H's case? Yup, he's being charged. Was H in the right? Yup. But whose vehicle is destroyed? Who was lucky to not have suffered serious injury or worse?

Motorcycling requires all of your attention all of the time. Simple as that. And the best time to reflect on that and learn about it is when the consequences of not doing so are still fresh in your mind. And body. As 'insensitive' as it is, if we want to reduce the number of crashes this is the best method of delivery.

Oh and my condolences for your loss H. Perhaps if you had been paying more attention to the risks around you we could've avoided this whole thread.

For me its not the dribble of Katman that's the problem, its the assumption that Hitch should have done something different without KM actually being there. Its the absolute, "there are no such things as accidents" line. In this case, maybe Hitch was not as attentive as he could have been. I actually happen to think Hitch probably did all he could do to avoid the accident, bar not being there in the first place. But Hitch is such a nice guy that he probably would fall on his own sword rather than risk encouraging bad attitudes to safety in others.

[onearmedbandit]

For me its not the dribble of Katman that's the problem, its the assumption that Hitch should have done something different without KM actually being there. Its the absolute, "there are no such things as accidents" line. In this case, maybe Hitch was not as attentive as he could have been. I actually happen to think Hitch probably did all he could do to avoid the accident, bar not being there in the first place. But Hitch is such a nice guy that he probably would fall on his own sword rather than risk encouraging bad attitudes to safety in others.

Yup, I used to get pissed off when my boss questioned why I hadn't sold a car to the people I was just talking to. "You weren't there" I thought as he told me what he would've said to them. In my ignorance I thought he was just a know-it-all 'perfect' wanker, when really he was trying to open my eyes. True story.

[mossy1200]

Everyone knows the tail end charlie gets it even more often than point man. If Hitcher had a faster bike he would have been bike number one and avoided the accident.

[swbarnett]

Motorcycling requires all of your attention all of the time.

Never a truer word said. However, I feel compelled to add that the attention of which you speak does not have to be conscious. While not ideal, a rider that develops the correct mindset can ride in the sub-conscious and still be safe. Indeed it is sometimes the case that the conscious mind cannot react fast enough when it needs to.

A case in point was when I was coming back from a very cold coro-loop ride with spokes earlier this year. My head was so cold that no way was my conscious mind on my riding. A car pulled out in front of me (similar but not identical to Hitcher's mishap). Had I been alert I would have backed off in plenty of time. Instead I had to take evasive action and, without any hint of conscious thought, swerved into a lane split and got off scott free.

[Fatjim]

Yup, I used to get pissed off when my boss questioned why I hadn't sold a car to the people I was just talking to. "You weren't there" I thought as he told me what he would've said to them. In my ignorance I thought he was just a know-it-all 'perfect' wanker, when really he was trying to open my eyes. True story.

Yeah, but you were a relative newbie, and he was your boss. you should be listening to him.

Here is different, some of us have very good experience riding/driving/cycling on NZ roads, and yet we don't agree with the religon of KM.

[onearmedbandit]

Yeah, but you were a relative newbie, and he was your boss. you should be listening to him.

Here is different, some of us have very good experience riding/driving/cycling on NZ roads, and yet we don't agree with the religon of KM.

I've been riding for 25yrs myself. I understand what KM is on about, and agree with it. And judging from the rep I received from my initial post a lot of other riders with vast experience understand it as well.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I've been riding for 25yrs myself. I understand what KM is on about, and agree with it. And judging from the rep I received from my initial post a lot of other riders with vast experience understand it as well.

Still quite a few stupid assholes commenting here that could do with a mirror at home though.

[Winston001]

Why he didn't see you, here's one hypothesis:
You know how birds can see two people go into a hide and if one person leaves they think everyone has gone/ all clear. This situation could be something similar, the truckie could just have a very small brain and thought "bikes have gone past, all bikes must have gone past". Reinforces the need for IQ tests for drivers licences (especially heavy vehicles)!


...were you in the blind spot of his left mirror and or cab bodywork when he looked your way?...

Good thoughts. This probably isn't the right thread to discuss such theories so very briefly, there is a piece of research which shows humans don't always see fast-moving objects. We evolved over 2 million years in an environment where few things moved rapidly. If we are distracted, our primitive hind brain takes over and it doesn't recognise fast. Anything at a distance is dismissed.

The blind spot is also an explanation.

Best wishes H.

[oneofsix]

Good thoughts. This probably isn't the right thread to discuss such theories so very briefly, there is a piece of research which shows humans don't always see fast-moving objects. We evolved over 2 million years in an environment where few things moved rapidly. If we are distracted, our primitive hind brain takes over and it doesn't recognise fast. Anything at a distance is dismissed.

The blind spot is also an explanation.

Best wishes H.

I suspect you are correct that this thread is too brief and it would take it too far off topic but human evolved with some very fast predators and tend to react quickly and instinctively to fast objects, as in ducking that ball hardly seen, but fast is a relative term and in terms of this thread and human reactions a relatively large object moving at 50k from some distance away is moderate speed. As a pedestrian the truckie would have probably cleared the intersection easily pity for Hitcher the truckie had to allow for a large slow moving truck.
As to Hitcher thinking too much about the smoothie and not enough about the truck you get into another whole realm of psychology there. It is quite likely, and I don't even expect Hitcher to remember, that he had noted the truck was moving and evaluated the danger, incorrectly as it turned out, and then gone back to the thoughts of the smoothie. After all the truckie did allow the two lead bikes throw and as humans react on experiences it would fit human logic that Hitcher was also free to proceed with no more concern for the truck.
As you said too short to discuss fully.
As for the quip that riding takes all your concentration all the time, it can't because that is not how humans evolved, we are all slightly ADD and once we have evaluated as situation we move on to the next most interesting thing - smoothies

[BoristheBiter]

Yup, I used to get pissed off when my boss questioned why I hadn't sold a car to the people I was just talking to. "You weren't there" I thought as he told me what he would've said to them. In my ignorance I thought he was just a know-it-all 'perfect' wanker, when really he was trying to open my eyes. True story.

But did he abuse you for not agreeing with him?
Look at post 107, it is a classic KM post, abuse at the end so the message is forgotten.

You and me have had a few slagging matches on here and I can't for the life of me remember what they were for other than it was pointless.