The minority may ruin it for the majority on the "Coro Loop"

[bogan]

Depending on the quality of your headlight (most are actually poor) ... it may be ... that it IS very much to do with speed limits. Until you KNOW how far ahead you can see in regards to your stopping ability ... it would be foolish to assume the open road limit is safe for you on your bike.

Having spent many hours riding in darkness ... in all hours of the night .... over many years. I have had more problems with what I haven't seen ... than what I can, and had seen ... in my lights.

You contradict yourself, if it is foolish to assume the open road speed limit is safe due to bike/rider differences, then how is it very much to do with speed limits?

I'm not just talking about night riding, I mean corners and shit. Which is why sightlines are a different issue to speed limits, unless you want to put up different limits each time a corner comes up it has to be riders choice to ensure they are not outriding the visible bit of the road.

[Drew]

You don't actually have a clue what you're talking about, do you?

That's photoshopped. He's not counter steering!

[jrandom]

That's photoshopped.

True. I should've noticed.

Next thing you know, someone on the internet will try to have us believing that shaft drives can wheelie.

[Drew]

True. I should've noticed.

Next thing you know, someone on the internet will try to have us believing that shaft drives can wheelie.

Witches, the lot of them I tell ya!

[jrandom]

Witches, the lot of them I tell ya!

Burn them.

[FJRider]

Hang about .. the differences between a fork mounted light on a naked bike and a fairing mounted light should have nothing to do with how you can see around a corner at night!!! To turn a bike you turn the bars only at very low speed ... you do not turn the bars, and therefore the light, at any normal riding speed.

Although what you say is correct ... it was the greatest factor that really caused the off, that issue was in the riders head. Especially at LOW speed. (at rally sites was the most noticed and funniest time)Those not used to chassis fitted fairings had the biggest problem ... (Old school riders with their NEW recent purchase/modification)

The early chassis fitted fairings (on some) had a very narrow beam. Usually non factory fitted and not well set up/thought out ... often with the headlight recessed slightly into the fairing. (which didn't help either) and turning the bars to get a better look at the corner (again ... old school riders) DID have issues of it's own. (as you may imagine)

[FJRider]

You contradict yourself, if it is foolish to assume the open road speed limit is safe due to bike/rider differences, then how is it very much to do with speed limits?

I'm not just talking about night riding, I mean corners and shit. Which is why sightlines are a different issue to speed limits, unless you want to put up different limits each time a corner comes up it has to be riders choice to ensure they are not outriding the visible bit of the road.

You MAY be able to see 200 meters of reflective road markers ... but bugger all else. (maybe some cats-eyes if the road is flat enough ... and the road has any) and the old brain fills in the gaps (so to speak) Unless the rider is very familiar with that particular piece of road ... assumptions on what they think is there, are not actually correct.

Sometimes the headlight beam is wide ... showing the sides of the road up quite well. And the road markers out to 100 meters are seen, but blackness after that. At 100 kms/hr ... that 100 meters arrives pretty dam quickly. Non reflective things (Animal or mineral) on the road surface may not be seen until 50 meters out. Again ... at 100 kms/hr ... not much time for good avoidance plans to be devised. Most just go with swerve to avoid (without slowing) .... and without being able to see that far ahead ... (and looking at what you're trying to miss) not always the best option.

Corners (most of them anyway) already have limits posted ... but who takes notice of them ... eh ... !!!

Those that don't do much night riding/driving have little idea how little they actually can see ... and how little time they have to stop in time if they do see something. But the are confident that their speed isn't excessive ... especially if they're on or under the limit. Those OVER the limit only look for other vehicles coming in the distance. Looking where the marker posts are seen to end. (not in close) and tunnel vision sets in. Dangerous enough in daytime.

Some people aren't safe at 80 kms at night. Some just get lucky at 100 kms. And some I would follow at any speed THEY are traveling at ... And I imagine you know at least one person in each of those three groups.

[Banditbandit]

Like I said. Pitch black, pissing down, 35kph signposted corners on an unfamiliar road, and tyres that I'd lost all trust in a few hours prior.

I wasn't going at any normal riding speed.

35kph is not that slow ... I wouldn't be turning the forks at that speed, I'd be using lean ..

What exactly do you suggest I rely on to see around corners at night, old bean? Ultrasonic bat goggles?

Use you're eyes .. and as has been said - don't corner at speed if you can'tr see around the corner within a braking distance ... especially true at night ...

You don't actually have a clue what you're talking about, do you?

That bike is a low speed - and yes, I would proably turn the bars there too ... and I probably have more clue about what I am talking about than you do - I'll place good money on me having bought my first bike before you were born and never been without one ...

[sidecar bob]

I'll place good money on me having bought my first bike before you were born.

A little presumptuous to think that older is smarter dont you think? If that were the case, the Wright brothers' father would have been the first man to fly a plane.

[jrandom]

I'll place good money on me having bought my first bike before you were born.

Being an old dumb cunt who doesn't know what he's doing doesn't make you any less of a dumb cunt who doesn't know what he's doing.

[Banditbandit]

A little presumptuous to think that older is smarter dont you think? If that were the case, the Wright brothers' father would have been the first man to fly a plane.

No .. you kids know nothing .. that would be Richard Pearse's father !!!!

Being an old dumb cunt who doesn't know what he's doing doesn't make you any less of a dumb cunt who doesn't know what he's doing.

Oh .. I agree .. totally ...

In this case I do know what I am talking about ... If you think I do not know ... go and try it out .. you don't need to do it at night .. just get out on the road, find a corner you can ride around at, say, 65 klicks ... then go and try to take the corner at 65 klicks by not leaning but by turning the forks into the corner ... or you can try leaning AND turning the forks ... Just don't come back to try to blame me if you fuck up badly ..

[Banditbandit]

Although what you say is correct ... it was the greatest factor that really caused the off, that issue was in the riders head. Especially at LOW speed. (at rally sites was the most noticed and funniest time)Those not used to chassis fitted fairings had the biggest problem ... (Old school riders with their NEW recent purchase/modification)

Being OLD school myself - I know exactly - I never had a faired bike until the end of last Century ... and yes - at low speed I would turn the forks and the light would not move ... BUGGA

On the open road it was in my head for a short while - until I realised that I never cornered by turning the forks, so whether the headlight was on the forks or in the fairing, it did not matter ..

[jrandom]

If you think I do not know ... go and try it out .. you don't need to do it at night .. just get out on the road, find a corner you can rider around at, say, 65 klicks ... then go and try to take the corner at 65 klicks by not leaning but by turning the forks into the corner ...

65kph?

Maybe you did actually miss what I was implying.

35kph signposted corners, pitch black, pissing down, tyres that I'd been unexpectedly sideways on in the wet earlier that day - if it's not obvious how one would tend to handle that situation, I was travelling at more like 20kph.

I also neglected to mention the endless sequence of those orange "caution slippery road" signs all the way along, which did nothing except leave me terrified about invisible tar bleed leaping up and biting me in the arse (I've binned braking into a corner on tar bleed on a back road in heavy rain late at night in the past, so I'm leery of it).

You don't need to worry about educating the audience here about countersteering, I can assure you. It's been touched on once or twice on the internet before now.

[sidecar bob]

No .. you kids know nothing ..

PMSL!!! Im ten nek birthday.

[Banditbandit]

I remember this one time when I'd just switched from a bike with a headlight that turned with the bars to a bike with a fairing-mounted headlight, and then rode from Tauranga to Rotorua via Pyes Pa at midnight in heavy rain, I was going slow enough that I was doing whatever the opposite of countersteering is, and I was subconsciously expecting the headlight to turn with the bars and light up the exit of the corner, but it wasn't, and that fucked me up and made me go even slower, and it became a vicious circle of cold, wet fail.

That's what you said .. and you are right !!! You were expecting the headlight to turn - and it was not ... You had a mistaken idea that the light turns when it is mounted ont he forks - that only occurs at low speed ...

Yes, that weather at night will slow you down. I always slow down in the rain - less grip - and I slow down at night - because it's harder to see around corners ... so I'd slow down even more in the rain at night ...

65kph?

Maybe you did actually miss what I was implying.

35kph signposted corners, pitch black, pissing down, tyres that I'd been unexpectedly sideways on in the wet earlier that day - if it's not obvious how one would tend to handle that situation, I was travelling at more like 20kph.

I also neglected to mention the endless sequence of those orange "caution slippery road" signs all the way along, which did nothing except leave me terrified about invisible tar bleed leaping up and biting me in the arse (I've binned braking into a corner on tar bleed on a back road in heavy rain late at night in the past, so I'm leery of it).

Yep, tar bleed is always dangerous .... especially bad around the Bay of Plenty ... I'm always leery of it ...

You don't need to worry about educating the audience here about countersteering, I can assure you. It's been touched on once or twice on the internet before now.

I'm not trying to educate you about counter steering - you obviously use it ... you'd learnt to use it when you did Pye's Pa Road at night ...

Think about the dynamics .. at anything above 20 ks (educated guess .. not a physicist) when you turn the forks the power is pushing forward, through the line of the bike, and across what is now the direction of the weel/tyre - across the grip on the road ... because the front wheel is no longer in line with the rear wheel ...

When you lean and counter steeer, the push is still forward .. but now it's through the front wheel, which is in line with the rear ... and the wheel rolls normally - no sideways push.

So if you turn the fork and hit seal bleed, the push is most likely to shove your front wheel across the line of the tyre - and you drop it ... if you counter steer and lean, then the push through both wheel even on seal bleed will keep the tyre rotating nornmally ...