The Fingertight Racing Sidecar Project

[jibberwobble]

Hows it going Pumba? Anymore thoughts on a new outfit? I've not been on for a while courtesy of life and it's many complications Still building my rig, it's consuming huge amounts of time which is always the case when you're inventinting shit from nothin.......... for every hour I spend on it I reckon only 15 minutes is actually tools in hand doing something, the rest is scribling, bollock scratching and imagineering. And for evry hour of work (15mins) there seems to be at least 2 hrs of research n part hunting.

Still aiming to do a thread on mine soon. Oh and shout if you lot want anymore pics of particular areas put up on my UK chair thread.

Do you guys change gear with right foot?

[Pumba]

Na nothing more has happened here. Apart from a lot google searching, thinking and formulating ideas. Really need to get the wife back into work so I can afford to go play again

I have been spending a bit of time over on your forums and looking a bit harder at the photos that you guys have up. There are some beautifully crafted rigs over there.

I do have a couple of questions for you, no centre hub steering type rigs have been built? Reviewing your rules I see nothing stopping it. Another was in regard to the braking/gear change set up. I had concluded that all the photos I was looking at had the foot brake on the left and gear shift on the right which is a little unconventional, any reason? All ours (as far as I am aware) are the more standardised bike set up with gear sift on the left. Cant imagine it any other way, hell I still run road pattern on my solo for fear of getting confused between the road bike and race bike.

[Drew]

Brake goes on the left, so it's not in danger of another chair hitting it. At least, that's the only reason we swapped ours over.

Works too. I've folded the gear lever and had to spend the race doing some awkward shifts. Would have had to pull off if it were the brake pedal.

Takes fuck all to get used to, but I admit that I made a hash of it when trying to run it race pattern. So it's right side normal shift on the chair, left side normal shift on the road bike, and left side normal shift on a solo on the track.

[Pumba]

Well looks like I have learnt somthing today.

[Drew]

Cocked that up. Left side race shift for a solo on the track.

[nodrog:Me]

Brake goes on the left, so it's not in danger of another chair hitting it. At least, that's the only reason we swapped ours over.

Works too. I've folded the gear lever and had to spend the race doing some awkward shifts. Would have had to pull off if it were the brake pedal.

Takes fuck all to get used to, but I admit that I made a hash of it when trying to run it race pattern. So it's right side normal shift on the chair, left side normal shift on the road bike, and left side normal shift on a solo on the track.

On a modern its also far easier to mount all the masters cylinders and plumbing inboard.

On a classic the poms always had their gear levers on the wrong side.

If running left foot brake its common to run standard road shift as if their was some foot retardation, pushing down with either foot will slow you down one way or the other.

[Danger Dave]

I run race shift on my chair, right foot change and push back to change up but then i'm slow and don't really know what i'm doing

[jibberwobble]

I take it you've been on MMS forum and FB uk mini sidecars page?

Re centre hub steering..... No I dont think there has been any yet. I dont know why, I imagine it's just a case of no one's got round to it. The new Filf and Emms outfits both have single side fork on the front but thats about as far as anyone has gone. I think the thinking behind it is for quicker tyre changes mainly.

My personal view that it has more potential to be damaged in a incident and wont necessarily be any lighter. I guess the same could be said for centre hub depending on how it's designed. Havent got a clue what is better about centre hub TBH, is it that the suspension can be better set up or something? If so it wouldnt provide a major leap forward on machines that dont have suspension (our rules dont allow it). At a complete guess I was under the impression that the rules for minimoto, mini sidecars and possibly karting didnt allow suspension to keep costs and complexity down but who knows.

As for brake/gear change..... I was told that on full size rigs they put the brake on the left so that if you get hit hard from the right rear corner and your foot/leg gets broken you can still stop because your braking foot is safe. Again dont know if thats all there is to it but it's something I've heard along the way.

Please clarify: race bikes - push down to change up where as road bikes push down to change down? I knew straight away when I first tried out my outfit prior to mods for our first season that shifting was going to be an issue unless I took a run up and drop kicked the pedal, the only way I could shift at all was to wear steel toe cap work boots due to the pedal being modelled around an elephants leg. At the time it was set up to change up by pushing down, great on the going with the natural forces front but given that it's much easier to push the pedal down I binned the original pedal, made something my foot could use and set it up to work the other way round. I figured the only time I would need to be going rapidly through gears was on the down shift so stamping down in rapid secession seemed like it was worth a try. As far as I know all the others change up by pushing down which is how a race solo is..... correct?? Got used to it in no time although I dont ride proper bikes very often, had a go on a pitbike the other day and surprisingly for someone with such a small brain I didnt have any issues at all using the other foot for shifting.

As far as uk mini's go there has been some weird shit going on in the past. The old school outfits run front brake on right bar as per normal road bike, rear brake on left bar as per normal bicycle. Then come the comedy bit, the clutch is also on the left bar so you have two levers to choose from and no amount on finger dancing is gonna deal with them both at once which makes the rear brake fairly useless in most situations, mine came to me this way and I didnt use the rear brake once in anger all last season, in fact the only time I ever pulled that lever was to test if it worked once when I was coming out the holding area. The brake pads also end up caked in chain grease when you dont use then so the whole arrangement is pretty crap really. It would seem that the rear brake was only ever introduced to accommodate the 'must have' two separate braking systems regulation. Personally in the situation of brake fail on the front there is not much time to think and I reckon dumping it down through the box would be just as effective, this is what I've been using as a rear brake all along anyway. just using a small front caliper alone we've been stopping very well indeed with no major issues.

I think some folk have linked the front n rear calipers to the same lever on the right bar and used bias valve for adjustment. Then putting an additional tiny little minimoto mechanical caliper on the rear disc as the emergency brake knowing that it will never be used.

The rigs you see with foot brake seem mostly to do a similar thing to the above or have a second hydraulic caliper on the front disc attached to a conventional front right bar mounted lever as the emergency.

Tamzine's Black n orange (posh) outfit has the addition of a chair wheel brake.

On mine I've now gone the whole hog and have hooked up a brake pedal (left foot) to a second front disc, rear disc and introduced a chair wheel brake too. This is an experiment so the jury will be out for a while yet. I had to go for a second front disc because there wasnt enough room to get another caliper on the other side, the frame is very close on my rig. The original front brake that we have been doing all our stopping on will remain in place as the emergency brake and for instant bias control if more front is needed mid braking zone. For those who are thinking this is gonne be a disaster for quick tyre changes, I have a plan. Three front axles already set up with tyre and discs so it'll be just the spindle to pull out, swap the whole assembly n spindle back in, so thats one nut to undo verses the three wheel nuts the single sided boys are running. And yes I had to buy quite a few brake discs for this lot.

Will do pics of the brake setup as soon as its all bolted back together and a bit more finished.

Now I've bored the living shit out of you all I'll go climb back under my rock!

[Drew]

On a modern its also far easier to mount all the masters cylinders and plumbing inboard.

On a classic the poms always had their gear levers on the wrong side.

If running left foot brake its common to run standard road shift as if their was some foot retardation, pushing down with either foot will slow you down one way or the other.

Was easier to mount the master cylinders on the right hand side when we first built the brakes. Only changed it because Ian didn't like it.

Race shift on the right foot is just hard work I found. G forces seemed to be working against me when turning, what seemed like every time.

[nodrog:Me]

...... G forces seemed to be working against me when OVERturning, what seemed like every time.

yeah its was a tough couple of months bro.

[Drew]

yeah its was a tough couple of months bro.

You got beaten up at school a lot eh?

[nodrog:Me]

You got beaten up at school a lot eh?

[Kickaha]

Was easier to mount the master cylinders on the right hand side when we first built the brakes. Only changed it because Ian didn't like it.

What didn't he like? there's nothing in the rules which says they have to be mounted on the left

We run road pattern

Like Noddyrog said, pushing back slows you down, easy to have both sides the same

[swarfie]

Race shift on the right foot is just hard work I found. G forces seemed to be working against me when turning, what seemed like every time.

Seems better to me to have race shift on a modern sidecar, as when accelerating it helps to change up when you're being forced backwards in the knee trays and forced forward when under braking. I loved riding Pinky with Jo at Taupo but struggled with the gear changes as its forward for up. But then I'm an OLD bastard with too many old injuries to contend with, like broken ankles, legs, knees and arses

Having said that my shed is full of all sorts from Pommy to European to Japa and I've got them all one down and the rest up, whether they're left or right change...never seem to get them ffff..mucked either.

[nodrog:Me]

...... I loved riding Pinky with Jo at Taupo but struggled with the gear changes as its forward for up. .....

The shift rod was too short for men's legs, I managed one lap in first gear. Couldn't change up due to foot being already bent all the way forward just to fit in the stirrup.

was a good lap though.