Weight is the killer I'd think, but it'd make it easier to get the rider weight lower. Gotta be killing their left hand cornering ability with the riders sitting so high, and the bike weighing so little.Originally Posted by Kickaha
Ta
Weight is the killer I'd think, but it'd make it easier to get the rider weight lower. Gotta be killing their left hand cornering ability with the riders sitting so high, and the bike weighing so little.
Weekend cruiser
Hey guys to try and take a bit of heat out of this thread just a quick recap on last race day, the rig which garned the most interest, the rider who had the most thrills and pats on the back was young Brian, do you think he was seriously worried about steerable chair wheels, or yaw and pitch? He built a rig and got his arse on the track, so to break it down there are two types of people in the world, A: Those who ride / and or build a bucket rig and make it to the track
B: Those who don't
You all seem to have really great ideas and technical know how, build something and show us how it should be done.
Like Henk said we just want bums on chairs and to make 8 laps with out subjecting our swingers to the joy of pushing a rig from the far end of the track, that's it.
This should be the year bucket sidecars come back from the dead, I hope to see you all on the track
In the riders seat
You forgot C: Those who have one leaning up against the back fence behind the Ute going rusty
"If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough power."
Unknown Disorder
If by long bike you mean the engine is behind the rider, Brenton's Chris's and ours are all long bikes. Pumba and Des have short bikes and Brian has a complete AX100 with a third wheel welded on.
Stock is best
Ta
Or "D". Those who have rebuilt a full size chair from the ground up.A: Those who ride / and or build a bucket rig and make it to the track
B: Those who don't
You all seem to have really great ideas and technical know how, build something and show us how it should be done.
Like Henk said we just want bums on chairs and to make 8 laps with out subjecting our swingers to the joy of pushing a rig from the far end of the track, that's it.
This should be the year bucket sidecars come back from the dead, I hope to see you all on the track
I'm of two minds as to weather I should finish the solo bucket, that I have lost interest in riding, or build a chair. Probably neither, seems the bucketeer attitude spans all the disciplines.
Do you run a gantry style chassis that you sit beside, or do you straddle the frame?
Unknown Disorder
Straddle the frame.
If you were going to go down the bucket sidecar route you might want to talk to the guys at Kaitoke first, the only place these have run regularly in the past 12 months is Auckland with a few rides at the NI meets. Long way for you to travel
Stock is best
Ta
Yeah. I've got a place it could live up there, and the wife and I come up a bit. I know of another bucket sidecar down here though, even powered GL styles if memory serves. But it'd take as long to tidy it up, as it would for Alan and me to build one from the floor I expect.
Manawatu roosters got some that show up from time to time don't they?
Anyhoo, back to Pumba's outfit.
If you can get your head closer to the front wheel, without having to hug the carb and head, the bike will be HEAPS more stable to the left. And less prone to understeer out of rights as well.
Unknown Disorder
The Griffiths rig has been dragged to Taumarunui and Tokoroa. Those and Ye Puke are about the only away tracks we can drag them along to. To be honest they are a bit of a sideshow there since everyone involved is also racing solos. Brenton's rig and ours was at Te Puke as well.
Stock is best
Hardcore Biker
Iguess mine would be called a true long bike, it's the one Mike Green raced, built from lcr drawings. Central main frame which you kneel to the right of. Hub centre steering and five link rear end, koni shocks and runs mini rims. It's over twenty years old, would have to have been the most costly and sophisticated Bucket sidecar built doesn't mean it was the best though. Should be out at Mt Welly again for August meeting, just have to stop breaking it every time i use it. Will try and get some current photos of it on here over weekend.
Who You Calling a Pig
About bloody time. Yea I think I will rig up something simple for the next meet so I dont plug the carb with my gut. I may have to look at lowering the bars as well to be able to get lower.
For the record Qkkid was in my bed, not the other way round
Bucket Racer/Crasher
Initially I swung on ours with my brother driving. Later I brought it to Auckland and ended up driving with a few different passengers. One of the first mods I did was move the sidecar wheel back about 100mm. I did it because as has been pointed out, when you turn the rig, either way, the further forward the sidecar wheel is the more it is slid sideways. This has the effect of resisting turning. Turning right the technique was to get weight over the front to reduce understeer and also to unweight the rear wheel allowing it to slip which allowed the chair to turn easier. The added benefit was that if it was unweighted enough it could be spun up exiting corners and acted a bit like slipping the clutch. The swinger had to be careful not to just drop back and down on the exit or it could bog down as the wheelspin was stopped. Turning left it was again a matter of getting forward though this time rather than being on top of the driver the passenger stretched forward beside the driver. This unloaded the sidecar wheel allowing it to scrub sideways which allowed the sidecar to turn again. The trick was to balance the chair with 0 weight on the sidecar wheel. As has been said, if the passenger scratched his arse at the wrong time . . . . .
I found the passenger was the most important part of the package when turning. If the rear was sliding you had to move back. if it wasn't steering you had to go forward. Your weight had to be in whatever place was required to unload whichever wheel and also to balance the grip front to rear. Once Doug and I got familiar with riding together it was magic. Each knew what the other was going to do and knew what to expect from the chair.
I've been talking to my son about building one. He seems keen. Just need to finish off a few other projects.
Ta
P'raps the carb could be mounted on a manifold, to point the inlet out the side?
What's the motor, and have you done any oil pickup/sump mods? Can it be tilted forward to free up some...erm...lower chest space?
On a full size, the swinger makes up a smaller percentage of the total mass. So they're control over it all is lessened. We have to try and get the balance very close to the magic window before the green flag. On smaller chairs, I imagine you can move further from said window and compensate effectively without losing performance.
So you can mount the motor in a position we would consider too close to the front wheel, without adding time to a lap.
Hmmm, it's all quite cool and interesting. Wish I didn't have so many projects on the go, I could get started on a chair tomorrow since the engineers haven't been to OK the building I'm working in...on it's seismic strengthening project.
Ta
Steel gantry type chassis runs down your left I gather? It'd be cool, but an aluminium monocoque is getting ridiculous for a bucket....I hope.
Unknown Disorder
There is one being built at the moment that you may consider ridiculous then, not sure if it's Ali monocoque but the design intent is for it to be a scaled down version of the Lawrence long bike.
Stock is best
Bucket Racer/Crasher
Alloy monococque wouldn't be too much I reckon. But then I know a friendly engineer with lots of sheetmetal tools. I've always thought a simple tubular main spar with sheetmetal bracketry. The so-called pancake bucket sidecars used to have about a 100mm diameter tube which the driver straddled. I'm thinking about a larger diameter tube rolled from sheet, say about 200-250mm dia. Where anything is bolted to it there would be a section of heavier gauge rolled section fitted inside. The fasteners would penetrate the main spar and screw into the smaller inner section clamping onto the main spar. I thought to bolt it up to make repairs and modification easier plus it would reduce the risk of ripping a section of main spar off with the clamping load spread out. The other option is to roll a heavier gauge section to fasten with rivets to the outside, which has brackets welded to it.
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