Red Devils & Kim .com

[puddytat]

Interesting article as it involves Dept. Inspector Grant Wormald of Kim .Com fame, who headed Operation Explorer....

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crim...r-false-arrest

[BoristheBiter]

So what they are saying is the cops made some shit up so their undercover agent can get some "street cred" and because of it they are not guilty?

Only judges in NZ

[puddytat]

False search warrants sounds slightly fraudulent to me.......Im not at all condoning the Red Devils,simply that the cops stuff up a major op by being....well ....dishonest.
Its stuff like this that make me just a tad more skeptical of their modus operandi & slightly worried about how "cavalier" some may be.

[BoristheBiter]

I actually think it is the court that is the problem.
The police should have stopped and withdrew the charge but that would have compromised the ongoing investigation.
The court should see how tied the cops hands are when it comes to things like this but once again it proves the courts are more on the side of crime.

[HenryDorsetCase]

So what they are saying is the cops made some shit up so their undercover agent can get some "street cred" and because of it they are not guilty?

Only judges in NZ

Actually no. the main reason it was thrown out was because Judges take the administration of justice pretty seriously. These fucking cowboy cops had FORGED A SEARCH WARRANT, among other things. The rules of the game only apply to one side, sure, but they do apply to that side, otherwise its anarchy, and Mr Akzle will be in charge. And no one wants that.

This is the only sensible result. Every cop involved in the fiasco should be severely disciplined, if not sacked. Wormald as the OIC should be writing parking tickets in Invercargill in July, in shorts and a sunhat.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I actually think it is the court that is the problem.
The police should have stopped and withdrew the charge but that would have compromised the ongoing investigation.
The court should see how tied the cops hands are when it comes to things like this but once again it proves the courts are more on the side of crime.

If the courts were "on the side of crime" they would have let these crooked charges and crooked evidence obtained by crooked means, stand. That they didnt, I put it to you, is a win for actual justice far wider than some dirty bikers.

"However one looks at it, a fraud is being committed on the courts," Justice France said about the false arrest.

He said it appeared the police's conduct had components of committing criminal offences.

''The search warrant would seem to engage section 256 of the Crimes Acts 1961 and the swearing of a false information would seems to engage section 110 of the Crimes Act.''

[HenryDorsetCase]

Here are the relevant sections of the Crimes Act 1961: note the lengthy prison terms:

False oaths

Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years who, being required or authorised by law to make any statement on oath or affirmation, thereupon makes a statement that would amount to perjury if made in a judicial proceeding.

and

Forgery

(1) Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years who makes a false document with the intention of using it to obtain any property, privilege, service, pecuniary advantage, benefit, or valuable consideration.

(2) Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 years who makes a false document, knowing it to be false, with the intent that it in any way be used or acted upon, whether in New Zealand or elsewhere, as genuine.

(3) Forgery is complete as soon as the document is made with the intent described in subsection (1) or with the knowledge and intent described in subsection (2).

(4) Forgery is complete even though the false document may be incomplete, or may not purport to be such a document as would be binding or sufficient in law, if it is so made and is such as to indicate that it was intended to be acted upon as genuine.

[Muppet]

If the courts were "on the side of crime" they would have let these crooked charges and crooked evidence obtained by crooked means, stand. That they didnt, I put it to you, is a win for actual justice far wider than some dirty bikers.

What Henry' is saying, is that if it can happen to them it can happen to you. This is why you have procedures and systems in place. Otherwise we'd be like Chile where they abducted people and threw them out of aircraft. I can think of a number of people I'd like to do this to. But I'd never get away with it, sigh.......

The Howard league for Penal Reform and other such hand wringing groups advocate for the same thing. Because the law applies to everyone, if Police make up false search warrants and are allowed to do it, then they'll do it again and as I said, you might be next. On the other side you have the Sensible Sentencing Trust. This is more my side of the coin, however over the last 20 years, how many times have you seen a bunch of savages kill children, get a light sentence and the witness the public furore. And what changes? Nothing.

My two cents worth.

[SPman]

I actually think it is the court that is the problem.
The police should have stopped and withdrew the charge but that would have compromised the ongoing investigation.
The court should see how tied the cops hands are when it comes to things like this but once again it proves the courts are more on the side of crime.

Bollocks!

This is the only sensible result. Every cop involved in the fiasco should be severely disciplined, if not sacked. Wormald as the OIC should be writing parking tickets in Invercargill in July, in shorts and a sunhat.

Wormald - the cop in charge of the Kim Dotcom case..........just more ammunition for K D's lawyers.......
Actions like this just fuck it up for the cops who take great pains to do it properly!

[BoristheBiter]

Actually no. .

What Henry' is saying, is that if it can happen to them it can happen to you. This is why you have procedures and systems in place. Otherwise we'd be like Chile where they abducted people and threw them out of aircraft. I can think of a number of people I'd like to do this to. But I'd never get away with it, sigh.......

The Howard league for Penal Reform and other such hand wringing groups advocate for the same thing. Because the law applies to everyone, if Police make up false search warrants and are allowed to do it, then they'll do it again and as I said, you might be next. On the other side you have the Sensible Sentencing Trust. This is more my side of the coin, however over the last 20 years, how many times have you seen a bunch of savages kill children, get a light sentence and the witness the public furore. And what changes? Nothing.

My two cents worth.

I thought it was because he is a lawyer.

To many times judges throw cases out when they are as guilty as sin, be that for a typo or such.
Lawyers (defense) are filthier than the crim's they defend and the courts pander too them as not to get appealed against.

As for this case, yes the cops fucked up in trying to get some street cred for the under cover cop. Doesn't mean that the case should be thrown out. It's not like it was an illegal search that found stuff for the case.
The cops should pay for a right royal fuck up but the case should still go ahead and see what other evidence there is.

Just more case against judges, and lawyers, that don't live in the real world.

And as for HDC post on the crimes act, don't make me laugh, ever seen a crim get punished for ling under oath? not fucking likely.

After years of seeing criminals get away with every type of crime I have had enough but like you say what changes? SFA. and you wonder why the cops just don't give a shit anymore.

[BoristheBiter]

Bollocks!

Wormald - the cop in charge of the Kim Dotcom case..........just more ammunition for K D's lawyers.......
Actions like this just fuck it up for the cops who take great pains to do it properly!

Bollocks to you too.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I'm thinking of starting an incorporated society to be called "The Howard League for Penile Reform": It can be a support group for men with tiny penises (so, half of KB) and pre-operative transsexuals (the other half of KB).

Who's in?

[puddytat]

Bollocks!

Wormald - the cop in charge of the Kim Dotcom case..........just more ammunition for K D's lawyers.......
Actions like this just fuck it up for the cops who take great pains to do it properly!

See that for me is it in a nutshell... with the Police they are the Law as such & we need to be able to rely on them to do their job to the letter of the Law. Power corrupts? Maybe.
As for Crims...well theyre just fuckwits. So they have an easier time of it. They just need to try & not get caught. Most of them do.Get caught at some stage that is....
As for the courts, well there does need to be some kind of checks & balances on them when they get it wrong.

[Bassmatt]

I'm thinking of starting an incorporated society to be called "The Howard League for Penile Reform": It can be a support group for men with tiny penises (so, half of KB) and pre-operative transsexuals (the other half of KB).

Who's in?

Wife tells me to sign up quick

[Akzle]

If the courts were "on the side of crime" they would have let these crooked charges and crooked evidence obtained by crooked means, stand. That they didnt, I put it to you, is a win for actual justice far wider than some dirty bikers.

no. the courts are the crime. they stand, they allow these filthy animals called lawyers to play semantic games with other people's fates, without full disclosure, and they employ these failed-lawyers to make decisions about shit.
good fucken deal. or not.