Campbell Live - Rope barriers.

[Drum]

Is anyone actually aware of a motorcyclist getting 'chopped to pieces' by a wire rope barrier in NZ? They have saved a lot of lives thats for sure. Someone mentioned that they are careful when riding around these barriers. That is one of the benefits of these barriers. The high number of posts that support the wire create an effect of increased speed in the peripheral vision of a motorist, the result being a subliminal desire to reduce speed (doesnt apply to everyone of course). It is also a proven fact that motorists slow down when there is a longitudinal hazard less than 1.5m from the edgeline. And yes, I did mean to say hazard, because thats what median barriers are. Its just that the barriers are intended to stop head on crashes, which inevitably have dire consequences. By the way, there are 5 'test levels' of barriers, the wire rope and standard 'w-section' being TL3. Concrete barriers are TL4 or 5 depending on height. TL4 and 5 have better resistance to heavy vehicles, TL 3 or less none at all. The TL is determined through standard tests, none of which include being hit by a motorcycle. A motorcyclist was beheaded by a w-section barrier on Auck's northern motorway a few years back, so dont think they are any better. Dont forget that median barriers also stop vehicles crossing into your path!

[Motu]

Marcus Lush is having a talk back about the road toll tonight on Radio Live - someone eloquent want to talk about cheesecutters.

Good post Drum,people are aware of them,and yes they stop cars coming into our lane....points everyone has missed.

[bugjuice]

I haven't missed that point.. I know damn well they work against traffic coming across into oncoming traffic. I've seen an 18-wheeler been cut down by that wire. Works amazingly well. And yes, given circumstances like this, people often slow down.

But cagers don't see this as being an immediate threat to them, cos they're in their nice warm safe cage. They also don't look around too well when changing lanes. So this means you being nice and safe and slow, going to overtake a slower person, but they decide to speed up and move lanes. Some times they just move over lanes for no reason.. anyway, if they move over and get you, you're the one being safe, yet you're still faced with these cheese cutters.. highly unlikely, but still.. what about slipping diesel or oil in the wet..?? I just don't like my chances..

[Drum]

Point taken bugjuice. What youre talking baout is 'recovery space'. This is the space available to road users (of all kinds) to avoid such dangerous manouvres by other motorists, or to regain control and renter the carriageway safely if you lose control. The fact is that these recovery spaces are pitiful on NZ's roads. Many of our roads were originally created to carry horses/ wagons etc and as such tend to be overly windy and narrow, with minimal/ no recovery space. New roads are designed differently in the main. Take a look at the motorway that was built between Auckland and Silverdale (finished in 1999). There are massive runoff areas to the sides (recovery space) and very few hazards within that area. While it would be great if all roads were like Alpurt (and in fact even a little better-dont get me started) few countries have the money to retrofit their roads to that standard. Transits standard runoff area is 9m from the edgeline in a 100km/h zone (with modifications for embankments etc). Adjacent to the median there should be a minimum of 2m, however they are still building roads that dont meet their own standards due to the cost. By the way, it is the bean counters and not the designers who are responsible for allocating funds. And it definately isnt the fault of the road workers!

[ZorsT]

this...

Dear the John Campbell Team.

I read (from the internet) in horror that from your article on rope barriors on motorways, people will assume that they are the safest, cheapest way to stop head-on collisions for all road users. While they are the cheapest way to stop a car crossing the centerline, they are not even slightly safe for motorcyclists. While the motorcycling community pays more ACC levys per vehicle, we get less protection with these "cheese grater" barriors that seem to be appearing left, right and center. The rope barriors will also cause cars to stop, and spin around. They will then be facing oncoming traffic.

While concrete barriors are not as cheap, i believe they are a better alternitive than the rope barriors because a car will slide along the barrior. Motorcyclists have a chance to survive a collision with a concrete barrior, a collision with a wire rope barrior would almost definatly result in death.

I trust that you will make it known to your viewers that these barriors are unsafe, for all vehicles involved.

Yours sincerely,

[raster]

SH 1 around Te Kauwhata has the cheese cutters on both sides of the lane, probly only 9 metres between them, a bike going over at that point has very little chance.

[Dadpole]

The wire barriers that will worry me is when they start putting them on corners as a "cheap" subsitute for a real barrier. Armco is bad enough, but given the choice between them .....
Mailed off my 10 cents worth:

To: campbelllive@tv3.co.nz
Subject: wire rope barriers

your show recently featured rope barriers in a positive light.
There is a movement in this country by motorcyclists to try to remove these barriers as high speed impact, or impact between the barriers and another vehicle has an interesting effect on the human body. This is to slice the body in a similar fashion to piano wire cheese cutters.
I, for one, am not keen to demonstrate this to passing motorists, and I do not think any other motorcyclists would be so.

Overseas studies have shown that wire rope barriers are only effective in certain locations, and are not a "cheap solution" as they appear to be viewed by NZ roading authorities

Regards

[raster]

The wire barriers that will worry me is when they start putting them on corners as a "cheap" subsitute for a real barrier. Armco is bad enough, but given the choice between them .....
Mailed off my 10 cents worth:

They have

[HDTboy]

yeah, I was kind of thinking if they came back and said 'ok, lets interview you..'
On one hand, I wouldn't mind a go, but I'd just go bright red on camera and look stoopid. I'd like to be there, but I can't talk.. We should have someone just in case tho.. never know.. What about the KB god himself? spank..

I could handle the cameras and lights, but I can't come up with good arguments if I'm put on the spot. I need time to think of the good replies

[Pixie]

yeah, I was kind of thinking if they came back and said 'ok, lets interview you..'
On one hand, I wouldn't mind a go, but I'd just go bright red on camera and look stoopid. I'd like to be there, but I can't talk.. We should have someone just in case tho.. never know.. What about the KB god himself? spank..

If you can do the bright red thing and wear a red glove under your nose, you could do a good Dr Zoidberg impression

[HDTboy]

Stolen from one of Bobs posts
http://www.fema.kaalium.com/crashbarrier/index.html

[Lou Girardin]

Sorry Drum, but after a driving/riding career of 38 years, only the last few involving median barriers, I'll take my chances with a head-on, rather than falling off for whatever reason and sliding towards a cheesecutter.
And, in case you're wondering, I have had a very close call with a car crossing the median at Mt Wellington pre concrete barriers.
I, for one, do not need extra hazards placed in my path in the name of 'safety'.

[bugjuice]

If you can do the bright red thing and wear a red glove under your nose, you could do a good Dr Zoidberg impression

lol.. I'll probably mumble like that too!

[Eurygnomes]

I've had training for presenting documentaries on screen...? Plus, with the added advantage of soon leaving the country for the forseeable future...I could (almost) get away with saying it 'as it is' rather than attempting to cover! Would like to get all facts under my belt first though - so would require support from a research team of KB'ers!

Has anyone actually received a response from the Campbell Live lot?

[Waylander]

I've had training for presenting documentaries on screen...? Plus, with the added advantage of soon leaving the country for the forseeable future...I could (almost) get away with saying it 'as it is' rather than attempting to cover! Would like to get all facts under my belt first though - so would require support from a research team of KB'ers!

Has anyone actually received a response from the Campbell Live lot?

Got that thing that I posted before. Not from Campbell but is a reply... [shrug]