Tazers

[Ixion]

So it's up to us as a voting public to ensure we never again vote in a psychotic, egomaniacal "Reds-Under-The-Bed" paranoid schizoid like Piggy. Or any other form of delusional self-aggrandising despot, for that matter.

We vote in another cock like that, we deserve a "Red Squad" armed with Tasers...

Not quite the point. Muldoon was responsible for the decision to have the tour, he was not (and constitutionally could not be) responsible for police tactcis.

When the police are acting as a paramilitary force (and the Springbok tour was certainly not the first instance, Massey's cossacks and the 1951 specials come immediately to mind , and I don't imagine they will be the last) , the one thing working in favour of the people (ie the ones the police are fighting) is that the police are (usually) limited in their ability to use deadly force (eg Glocks) . And if they are limited to batons, fire hoses etc, the odds are more or less equal - Joe Citizen can wield a stick as well as PC Plod. Arm the police with a semi-lethal weapon (which is what the taser is) and the situation changes. Because it is not actually lethal, the police have little compunction against using it widely,but its effect is comparable to firearms in the short term .

Nor is it too hard to envisage possible scenarios in the near future where such conflict could arise in NZ

Some time soon :

The Iraq / Iran front blows up.
GWB and Tony Poodle call in all their favours, present and future, in search of allies.
Our own Ms Clark sees her chance to secure that UN role , and announces that NZ will make a major military commitment to provide active support for the New Coalition of the Willing.
Sweeping new anti terrorist laws are passed to support this, and a draft scheme is announced to provide NZ troops for the Middle East.
Many New Zealanders strongly object to this.
Demonstrations and protest occur throughout the country.
Squads of police armed with Tasers successfully attack the demonstrators.
All resistance to Helen's new laws is succesfully tasered out.

Unlikely, but far from impossible.

[Edbear]

Thanks for saying "braver" and not the "S" word...

I would be wanting at least a cup of coffee and a biscuit after recovering, I suspect.

'Sokay! Considered it but it didn't suit the context of your post which, (as usual), was thoughtfully worded. I think I'd be wanting a bit more than a coffe and biscuit afterwards, though! LOL!!!!

[Lou Girardin]

The 'old' rifel is a Model 7 Remington that is being replaced by Bushmasters.

The Model 7s will be destroyed when they are phased out "in compliance with United Nations policy".

That's right folks, rifles valued at $300,000 minimum will be destoyed instead of being sold.

And you wonder where all the speed-ticket money goes????.

Because we all know that terrorist are hanging out for Model 7's.
That UN policy is directed at military weapons, but any gun is bad to Clark and Co.

[Lou Girardin]

So it's up to us as a voting public to ensure we never again vote in a psychotic, egomaniacal "Reds-Under-The-Bed" paranoid schizoid like Piggy. Or any other form of delusional self-aggrandising despot, for that matter.

We vote in another cock like that, we deserve a "Red Squad" armed with Tasers...


OK, Lias, hit me with the red bling, I know you want to...

NZ votes them in all the time.
Because we like 'strong' leaders.
We weren't the Prussians of the South Pacific for nothing.

[scumdog]

Because we all know that terrorist are hanging out for Model 7's.
That UN policy is directed at military weapons, but any gun is bad to Clark and Co.

Hanging out for a Model 7? They'd have to be amatuer terrorists if they want a five-shot, fixed magazine bolt-action rifle with no 'scope and a feed problem!!

They are an ideal 'beginners' rifle being really basic, easy to keep safe and nice and light to carry. (and cheap - that's why the Govt bought them in the first place, the high quality Sako rifles would cost too much to replace with same).

[Lou Girardin]

Hanging out for a Model 7? They'd have to be amatuer terrorists if they want a five-shot, fixed magazine bolt-action rifle with no 'scope and a feed problem!!

They are an ideal 'beginners' rifle being really basic, easy to keep safe and nice and light to carry. (and cheap - that's why the Govt bought them in the first place, the high quality Sako rifles would cost too much to replace with same).

I was being sarcastic. My usual state when I'm not asleep.

[scumdog]

I was being sarcastic. My usual state when I'm not asleep.

Ah yes, I know that and YOU know that but a lot here don't!!

Thing is, your comment gave me an opening to spout more info that others don't know - (and in a lot of case probably don't care).

[Fluffy Cat]

Has anyone seen the footage of the US cop zapping the lady that would not get out of her car?.
If you think thats acceptable in NZ you are a bunch of dicks.
You don,t need them cops need to use the head muscle more. I worked as a cop in Surrey at the time we had the highest recorded incidence of assault on police in the UK, my beat area was Woking and Byfleet area. 25000 people to police never hit anyone with my stick, or telescopic batton.
Don't mind a hand gun but 99.9% of the time you will never need it. If you accept this then where will it lead?.
NZ is to soft on crims but whos a crim these days?, in the UK they want to give speeders crime numbers. How many Kiwi bikers would be just crims?. The prob aint the police its our criminal justice system. The soft cocks are the courts and our law. Just try getting good access to our law without deep pockets and you will start to understand.
Now i work as an anaesthetic tech in a hospital and i am very worried about the use of these harmless tazers. You may be fit but then again you might have an undiagnosed heart condition or, it might be one of your kids. Night out on the town bit pissed wont do what you are told by the 20 year old cop and zap. Dead is dead and you, they were just a crim?. Had it comming did they?.
Like i said if you can't think your just a dick.

[Wolf]

The Iraq / Iran front blows up.
GWB and Tony Poodle call in all their favours, present and future, in search of allies.
Our own Ms Clark sees her chance to secure that UN role , and announces that NZ will make a major military commitment to provide active support for the New Coalition of the Willing.
Sweeping new anti terrorist laws are passed to support this, and a draft scheme is announced to provide NZ troops for the Middle East.
Many New Zealanders strongly object to this.
Demonstrations and protest occur throughout the country.
Squads of police armed with Tasers successfully attack the demonstrators.
All resistance to Helen's new laws is succesfully tasered out.

Unlikely, but far from impossible.

I do take your point but I find it surprising that the Police Commissioner would hold sufficient power to decide to create such a force without govermental authority. Surely the order to "sort it out by whatever means necessary" has to come from higher up the chain of command. This is the Police Force we're talking about, not the CIA.

As to using Tasers in the situation you describe, 3 words:

Rate of Fire.

A baton can be wielded rapidly from one target to another, causing serious damage in its wake - enough to ensure that the earlier targets don't cause untoward problems while you're subduing their mates.

A Glock has a similar caharacteristic and it can be used at a range.

A Taser gun, however, is fired at one person to keep them subdued. While that person is being subdued the police officer (and the Taser) cannot be used for anything else. The cop cannot rapidly tase multiple targets. Moreover, once the influence of the Taser is removed and the person has recovered, the person is frequently capable of functioning (and probably fucked off).

A Taser is good at subduing individuals long enough to afix more lasting restraints (such as handcuffs and possibly a muzzle) when attempting to do so would be problematic or dangerous.

As a crowd control device it is crap - unless you have as many cops as you have rioters, each armed with a Taser (and assuming none of those still standing rip the wires from their tased confederates to get them back to combat readiness).

The Glock or the Bushmaster would be a far better "crowd control" device than a Taser.

[Wolf]

I was being sarcastic. My usual state when I'm not asleep.

I've heard that's your usual state even when you are asleep...

[Wolf]

Fluffycat, like any firearm, the police will need justification to fire a Taser. You can't just tase a drunk teenager who's being lippy.

As to the chick in the states, they have a very set routine over there that has evolved to save officers' lives. You cannot compare the UK or NZ with a country where many of the citizens carry guns in their cars and could be using the "back-chat" to buy time to draw a weapon.

In the US, if you do not display your hands when requested and exit the car in the exact manner you are requested, the cops can and will assume you are going for a weapon and will respond accordingly.

I do not see that scenario occuring here in NZ unless a lot of people start carrying firearms in their cars and plugging the cops as they approach. Maybe then we'd get a policy of "if they don't get out of the car, subdue them".

I watched the footage several times and frankly, if I were a cop in a country where a large number of my colleagues had been murdered at routine licence checks, I'd tase the bitch as well. Before tasers, the cops would have drawn pistols on her and she could have been shot for failing to keep her hands where they could see them.

[scumdog]

Until now I refrained from commenting on the argument that the woman in the clip was getting zapped 'for not getting out of the car' but Wolf has summed it up nicely.

While it SEEMED that way how were the cops to know she was just being arrogant/snotty whatever and not trying to get a gun??
I have had first hand stories of similar incidents (when in the USA) that looked straightforwards but turned to custard p.d.q. when the subject produced a pistol out of 'nowhere'

I guess a lot out there have (a) never been in that situation and (b) believe everything presented to them on T.V.

[Indoo]

I'd like to see how all these vocal opponents of tasers in the following situation.

You and your female partner are called to a violent domestic, theres no-one free to back you up and when you get to the address you hear a violent scuffle inside and a woman screaming. You enter the house and suddenly are confronted by a large gang member amped out on P whose weilding a 4 foot long iron bar and now suddenly has a new target for all his anger.

Spray is ineffective against such people, your 50cm long batton is laughable and if you turn your back and run your going to get an iron bar in the back of your head.

I wonder what they would do?

[scumdog]

Situation like that don't exist in real life Indoo, people don't actually behave like that, nobody is THAT nasty, there is no need for Tazers, people will only misuse them donchaknow?

[Edbear]

I'd like to see how all these vocal opponents of tasers in the following situation.

You and your female partner are called to a violent domestic, theres no-one free to back you up and when you get to the address you hear a violent scuffle inside and a woman screaming. You enter the house and suddenly are confronted by a large gang member amped out on P whose weilding a 4 foot long iron bar and now suddenly has a new target for all his anger.

Spray is ineffective against such people, your 50cm long batton is laughable and if you turn your back and run your going to get an iron bar in the back of your head.

I wonder what they would do?

And, (with apologies to Hitcher for starting a sentence with, 'and'), one would have to be very accurate with a Glock in such a circumstance, too. Even a 9mm won't stop him unless it hits the right spot.