Countersteering: push or pull?

[george formby]

Do a course. Pro rider was amazing and the best thing about it being on a track was that you could go around and do the same corners over and over. They give you the tools to work with, send you out to practice and follow you to make sure your doing it right. When explaining counter steering they did say it was easier on a cruiser to pull the outside bar because it will give you more leverage. Practice on a straight. That's how I got the hang of it...

In a nutshell.

[arcane12]

Sorry, forgot to mention, I have been on the bike for about 8 months, 6 weeks since passing my restricted. The bike is a cruiser.

Go and find a course. Good god and you must of even passed the basics. It is know wonder the licence system is rooted !!

Real helpful!

You mentioned you did it sub conciously previously, how was that working out before you started thinking about it so much?

It was working out quite well, it was my 'natural' tendancy. I just was wanted to know if it was correct or, more importantly, safe.

the counter balancing comment stands out to me...

lean into the corner not away from it. move ur body more and bike less.

take a course!!

Yeah, I thought so. It did not seem right when I gave it some thought, but at the time it was my natural reaction. Luckily I am not the sort to push things too far, so it has not sent me into hurtsville, but no time like now to change my habits.

And yes, it is on my agenda to take a course as soon as I can.

[Akzle]

Is this a bad habit that I should look at retraining out before I run into trouble, or is it a case of courses for horses?

On a related note I also found myself shifting my weight a little to the right to counter balance the bike to lean it further (rather than leaning left into the left corner). It's hard to explain correctly, but I will give it another go if anyone thinks it important enough to examine in depth.

i do the same. like ridin a legerté hoss. can't say it's bad. or good.
mainest point is look where you're going. all the time.

you want to lean your bike LESS. so you should lean you MORE.
continuing to do it your way WILL result in a lowside when you get a bit keen.

where's our resident professional, drew?

[MSTRS:Me]

No-one has mentioned the leaning-out thing seems to apply to motards...but then everyone knows those riders are mad...

OP - if you are doing a real slow speed tight turn, then leaning your body away from the turn can help turn tighter. But keep doing it at road speeds....well...you've basically had the answer eh?

As for the counter-steer setup...depends whether you want to be a drug dealer or a wanker.
Hint - you can probably buy your fix from most of us.

[p.dath]

It's surprising if anyone gets anything usefull out of this site with all the negative comments from someone just wanting to learn something from someone newer.

My personal preference is to push, and here is why. Cruisers can be a little different, but on most types of road bikes you learn to start moving your body off the bike to the inside of the corner (search "kissing the mirror" to get you started). If you continue this to the extreme on the track you'll be hanging off the bike. In both of these cases the outside bar is much further away the the inside bar - so it is far easier to push the near inside bar than to try and pull the car outside bar.

So although it probably doesn't make any different on the type of bike you have now, at the level your at now, if you move onto something more sportier later on you'll find it easier if you learn the push mantra now.

[Drew]

Don't think about it. Push or pull works.

On a bike that is raked out like an LS, moving your body off center isn't particularly helpful since loading the front tyre isn't really possible.

Always look where you want to go, then just ride it and enjoy.

[onearmedbandit]

I do both.

[Fast Eddie]

I do both.

after temporarily losing the use of my left hand I was wondering how I can modify the clutch for right hand operation.. flag the front brake and just put clutch there instead?

[Drew]

. flag the front brake and just put clutch there instead?

Seems legit.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I do both.

I had to think about that for a couple minutes, but of course you do.... pulling in a left bender, pushing in a right bender. I suggest you would be the best counter-steerer of any of us. Or most likely the most conscious of it.

[DEATH_INC.]

does it look right to you?

Nope, he needs to get his elbows up and the inside foot off the peg and up by the fork

As for countersteering, I do both..push and pull at the same time.

[Transalper]

If I'm in a hurry to tip my bike over I counter steer by pushing one side and pulling the other together.
Counterweighting in a turn is very useful when low speed manoeuvring such as u-turning, weaving, parking etc and at all speeds on gravel.

[nodrog:Me]

Hey I used to have a LS650, push or pull it didnt really matter, the frame got in the way when trying to corner.

[arcane12]

I have begun to modify my behaviour. The work commute has a few corners on it, a 75 and a number of 85s. I was stuck behind a car for some of it, but was able to have a good go at the 75 (I mean I am not crazy - maybe 100ish).

The push is something I feel I will need to work at remembering to do, though the lean felt like it would be easier to adjust to as it is something a bit less automatic.

It is interesting how my line changes because of it, and it is great to have an 'enforced' route to practice on that I know well.

I just need to remember - it's a cruiser, lean back, enjoy the road. Ok and have a little fun from time to time.

Oh and before anyone asks about the vagueness of the speed - just look where the Boulevard Speedo is. I am a reasonable judge but...

Edit: I think I taught myself the whole counter balance thing for doing the cones (puff puff) for the basic handling test. It must have transferred itself to high speed stuff. Sigh.

[sugilite:Me]

It was working out quite well, it was my 'natural' tendency. I just was wanted to know if it was correct or, more importantly, safe.

OKDOK, I started a thread yonks ago about riding smooth and I did a blurb on counter steering, I'll paste it in below.

Working with the bike

A lot of riders do the majority of steering using their arm strength alone. While being perfectly acceptable, it does take a fair bit of effort and that mounts up over a longer ride.
Another option is to use your body to help steer the bike, in particular your legs and feet can greatly add to sharing the steering load and giving you a greater number of force bearing contact points (hands, knees, feet) aiding in steering the bike. This spread of loading forces really helps smooth things out and the bike handles and responds better as a result.
An example of this would be, when initiating a left hand turn, the rider pushes against the left handle bar (counter steering - see note below) with their hand/arm, while simultaneously pushing down on the left footrest with their foot and pulling against the tank with their right knee. (assuming their bike type/ride position supports use of the knee). Now you don't need to go being a Rambo or Ramboette using this technique, all good things in moderation is one of the major secrets of smoooooth!

Note: The concept of counter steering is now becoming more widely known. The basics of counter steering is to initiate a left hand turn, one actually turns the handle bars slightly to the right causing the bike to lean to the left. Visa versa for right turns. It is a fairly natural process, so I won't be covering it in any real depth here.

Exercises I've used to speed up the learning process:
Fortunately there is a relatively quick way of learning how to use this technique.

Find a quiet and winding road with a series of corners that can be taken easily in say 3rd gear, being a hill would be a added bonus too. Once a suitable road has been found, scout it both directions checking for any hazards. Once you are satisfied the way is clear, take the bike up to third gear, then at a very gentle pace, take your hand off the left handle bar and navigate the road one handed at a pace you feel comfortable. Believe me doing this will force you to quickly start using your legs, feet and knees to help steer the bike. Once you get to the end of your road, turn around and do it again heading the other way, now repeat this process at least three times. At the completion of the third run, try the same piece of road using two hands running at a faster (but still safe) pace. You will very likely be blown away by how easy and effortless steering your bike has become now your using your whole body in synergy with the bike. Keep practicing the above until it becomes a natural process in your riding. When practicing, do not hesitate at all to put both hands on the bars at the slightest hint of a hazard or if your feeling uneasy with the situation.

The one other thing I will cover in this section is when navigating "S" bends,where your transferring your weight from one side of the bike to the other.
Using your whole body to steer will naturally have you on the balls of your feet when navigating twisties. So when you are banked over on one side and it is time to turn it to the opposite side, use your legs/feet to take the weight off your arse, personally I often use my legs/feet to lift my arse just off the seat by a centimeter or two. I find doing that really smooths out the whole transition process and the suspension will really thank you for it too.

The whole thread that came from is here if your interested in reading about other smooth riding techniques.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...d-to-do-it!%29