Countersteering: push or pull?

[Madness]

Even though I hold several national and a couple of international titles myself,,,I don't coach myself due to that very issue.

Let me guess, Petanque?

[onearmedbandit]

I had to think about that for a couple minutes, but of course you do.... pulling in a left bender, pushing in a right bender. I suggest you would be the best counter-steerer of any of us. Or most likely the most conscious of it.

Ever since getting back on bikes after the accident, I've been more aware of it. I went out for a couple of rides yesterday and thought about what you had posted, and yeah I would have to agree. My mind is very much on the task of push/pull, especially when doing quick turn-in corners. Add to that clutch (if necessary), front brake, and throttle modulation it makes for a very busy right hand.

[Fast Eddie]

On the sidecar, just take off the front brake hose and put the clutch to it.

Take off the caliper if it runs a 'spare' like the outfit we rode. Ya don't use it for anything but pushing around the pits anyway, and if your foot brake fails, don't expect the hand brake to have any effect at all.

Countersteering...Just so I'm still on topic.

sounds likes a plan to me! I've got some flash AP front brake cylinder/lever.. but the hydraulic clutch may hook up to it..

yip I run 2 calipers on the front, one is the handbrake and it is useless, the fluid gets cooked during the race anyway its never worked when I'v gone to use it.

I had a sit on the road bike the other day and managed to pull in the clutch with my left hand.. once or twice.. fuckn weak.

what can u eat or drink to help with post surgery trauma.. still swollen and stiff as (not my shlong)

[ckai]

Go and find a course. Good god and you must of even passed the basics. It is know wonder the licence system is rooted !!

Yip for a course but for god sakes don't do it on a track!! It's inappropriate and won't translate to how you ride on the road.

PS. Our bike licence system is rooted because the BHS tests how to ride slow but it's OK to then send them out to ride at normal speeds. With a test like this of course people aren't gonna know what to do without tuition.

If it hasnt been mentioned already go to the California Superbike School

http://www.facebook.com/CaliforniaSu...hoolnz?fref=ts

Thats inappropriate

Hi guys.

Thought I'd post in here as it may be a newbie question, here goes.

I have been working on my riding, trying to analyse what I am doing to see where I can improve.

I have been reading about counter steering, and while I am obviously doing it, I was not consciously aware of what exactly I was doing.

The first thing I did was on a nice straight bit of road I pushed the handle a little bit. Ahah! So then next corner I came to I tried to focus my mind of what I was doing with my hands (While trying to still make it a nice turn!)

Here is what I found: Rather than pushing on the left side to turn left, I was pulling on the right side (mentally I think I tied it to pulling the bike over into the lean).

Is this a bad habit that I should look at retraining out before I run into trouble, or is it a case of courses for horses?

On a related note I also found myself shifting my weight a little to the right to counter balance the bike to lean it further (rather than leaning left into the left corner). It's hard to explain correctly, but I will give it another go if anyone thinks it important enough to examine in depth.

After riding a few cruisers for the first time in the last few months coming from a sports bike (test riding for someone), counter steering is something you actually have to think about less on them. Leaning your upper body into a corner will mean you start counter steering.

As for the counter balancing, like someone mentioned, there's some crazy videos on youtube with bike cops going nuts on slow speed courses using that. Only good for slow stuff. Not good for normal speed.

[arcane12]

After riding a few cruisers for the first time in the last few months coming from a sports bike (test riding for someone), counter steering is something you actually have to think about less on them. Leaning your upper body into a corner will mean you start counter steering.

As for the counter balancing, like someone mentioned, there's some crazy videos on youtube with bike cops going nuts on slow speed courses using that. Only good for slow stuff. Not good for normal speed.

I have been putting the advice given into practice somewhat. I think the real answer, at least for a cruiser, is both. Or all. I have been breaking it down on every corner, trying something a little different on each one. One handed counter steering requires a lot more effort! Particularly as if I try to do it that way I am not pushing with my knee as much, and leaning to initiate the turn.

I thought I was pulling rather than pushing as that was the most noticable part of my action that was not as described on the LTSA site when it talked about counter steering. And let's not tangent off into what we all think of the LTSA. It is still a first point of reference for many novice rider, and is not all bad.

Finally counter balancing. I think I am not as bad as what some people thought, but on the flip side, it is something I should not be doing at all, so is good to be told 'Um, yeah, no, don't do that please.' Strangely enough I don't want to die and will actually listen to well thought out advice that helps me in that regard! I am still fighting that urge to be more upright in the corners as the bike leans, but have at least refined it to a large degree. It's actually harder to fight the urge if I am stuck behind some cage and can't attack the corner at the speed I would prefer. (100 or so around a 75, rather than the 85 the cage is doing.)

[ckai]

I have been putting the advice given into practice somewhat. I think the real answer, at least for a cruiser, is both. Or all. I have been breaking it down on every corner, trying something a little different on each one. One handed counter steering requires a lot more effort! Particularly as if I try to do it that way I am not pushing with my knee as much, and leaning to initiate the turn.

I thought I was pulling rather than pushing as that was the most noticable part of my action that was not as described on the LTSA site when it talked about counter steering. And let's not tangent off into what we all think of the LTSA. It is still a first point of reference for many novice rider, and is not all bad.

Finally counter balancing. I think I am not as bad as what some people thought, but on the flip side, it is something I should not be doing at all, so is good to be told 'Um, yeah, no, don't do that please.' Strangely enough I don't want to die and will actually listen to well thought out advice that helps me in that regard! I am still fighting that urge to be more upright in the corners as the bike leans, but have at least refined it to a large degree. It's actually harder to fight the urge if I am stuck behind some cage and can't attack the corner at the speed I would prefer. (100 or so around a 75, rather than the 85 the cage is doing.)

Totally agree with you about the LTSA website. Something is better than nothing. Would be cool if they had links or upcoming events to cheap courses.

To be honest, we I went riding on the cruisers, I did very little leaning at all with regards to my body. I just went with the flow of the bike - I "cruised" as opposed to attacking the corners on the Daytona.

A little bit of leaning into the corner helps with counter steering if you don't understand it. Great way to get new riders into it without them thinking about it. In saying that I know one particular rider that counter steers madly and doesn't move his body an inch! He's a demon rider, smooth as silk.

Moral of the story is the actual counter steering is the important part - not how ya do it (at least to start off )

[Maha]

Countersteering happens naturally, its how bikes go around corners...its called geometry.
Its only more prevalent at higher speeds.

Ride in a straight line below 100 kph and give the left bar a slight nudge, see how much the bike moves. (caution: dont push to hard)
When cornering left, you are leaning to the left, thus putting pressure on the left bar, same thing happens to the right, physics in action.

[Road kill]

Let me guess, Petanque?

Mate I don't even know what a Petanque is,,,your taking the P right ?

Me,,,3D and field archery.

Traditional Recurve and longbow.

Retired from competion last year.

Now just another spear chucker.

[Drew]

Mate I don't even know what a Petanque is,,,your taking the P right ?

Me,,,3D and field archery.

Traditional Recurve and longbow.

Retired from competion last year.

Now just another spear chucker.

So, you held the titles, rather than hold them?

Simantics only, it's completely irrelevant.

I think tomorrow I might go get some practice at something completely arbitrary. Breathing, there's something I haven't practiced for a while. Even if I do it perfectly now, if I should practice counter steering, I should practice breathing....

[Big Dave]

a very busy right hand.

Tell us something we didn't know. :=P

[Road kill]

So, you held the titles, rather than hold them?

Simantics only, it's completely irrelevant.

I think tomorrow I might go get some practice at something completely arbitrary. Breathing, there's something I haven't practiced for a while. Even if I do it perfectly now, if I should practice counter steering, I should practice breathing....

I still hold the titles for the years in which I won them.

It's not as if anybody else ever will is it ?

[Drew]

I still hold the titles for the years in which I won them.

It's not as if anybody else ever will is it ?

We call a title holder, the last person to win it.

But I suppose you're right.

[scumdog]

My personal preference is to push, and here is why. Cruisers can be a little different, but on most types of road bikes you learn to start moving your body off the bike to the inside of the corner (search "kissing the mirror" to get you started). If you continue this to the extreme on the track you'll be hanging off the bike. In both of these cases the outside bar is much further away the the inside bar - so it is far easier to push the near inside bar than to try and pull the car outside bar.

.

Sums up my choice for inducing counter-steering.

Of course it could have gone out the window when I fitted narrower bars to my cruiser - but no, I stuck with pushing forwards on the down-hill end of the bars.