ABS the question

[GrayWolf]

I want to know where the 'Meh' option is.

it's the one we'll use when the great K'man one day does sit in the middle of the road on his arse, when ABS 'might' have prevented it....

[GrayWolf]

Does ABS gurantee to keep you upright on a wet slippery rd when breaking hard? If not I would not bother as bike ABS can be expensive to service. It would possibly
be more of benefit to learner riders though who have not got the braking distribution between front and rear brakes right.

I did 70k+ on an FJ1200abs, this was the first bike with 'actual bike specific' ABS. The BMW system at the time was a modified car system. As it's a 1st generation system it had limitations for sure, one heavily publicised criticism was the rear ABS came on way too early. I would say 99.5% of my time I never felt the ABS come on, (I would occasionally just check it was operating on the rear, the front? I was a little chicken to do as it required about 30kph and a 'panic handful' of the front lever. I think I felt the front ABS actually work 3 times under riding conditions. The rear would 'click' every so often as per the 'complaint against it'

1st, coming to a roundabout in the wet, and a car decided to pull across almost into my side, I had to move across my lane. This put me on a large white arrow, only just started raining after several dry days, and under brakes... without the ABS I would no doubt have had a front wheel lock up and been dumped on the road.

2nd, on a 'Spirited' ride was the second bike following Kerry on his kwaka, round a corner with sheep all across the road (broke out of a fence) he had anchored up hard, I came round the bend on a bloody 'ocean Liner' at full steam ahead,, 275kg bike + 104kg rider on 1980's brakes.... No way could I stop in the distance left, so had to make an evading manoeuvre still under hard brakes.. ABS kicked in as I was canting the bike over.. stopped with no drama's other than about 5-8 mtrs past Kerry's bike.

3rd time, was again in the wet, and I will put my hand up for my 'inattention'... overtaking a car, as I got past him an oncoming 'high power'? Car had decided to boot it past a couple of other oncoming cars, I had to open it up, then brake quickly to get back into the the gap (had not allowed for the final required terminal overtaking speed) as I pulled in what I didnt notice till too late was a wet tar snake,,, front ABS activated and I finished the manoeuvre with no 'drama' again.....

Even with the brakes 'balanced' in those 3 scenario's the bike would have probably gone down without abs, I would go the other direction for learners, teach them correct braking technique first, so it becomes embedded, rather than allow handful grabbing, then try to retrain it.
Current bike doesnt have ABS, but I would certainly look at any bike I am considering purchasing to be equip with abs.

I can and do use cadence braking in suspect conditions, I rode 16 yrs in English winters, in these instances there was no 'anticipation' of treacherous 'footing' or simply had to react instantly, to avoid a collision.

[GrayWolf]

And not in just emergency situations .. EVERY situation ...

The driver behind them wont be always prepared for that ...

Very true, as a couple of riders found out on a club run, Vicky slammed on the brakes on the can am... believe me those things haul up bloody fast, it caught then out completely. (Spyder's have traction, abs, etc as standard.)

[FJRider]

Very true, as a couple of riders found out on a club run, Vicky slammed on the brakes on the can am... believe me those things haul up bloody fast, it caught then out completely. (Spyder's have traction, abs, etc as standard.)

Hence ... one eye on the mirrors ... on a regular basis. It pays to have a pretty good idea what (and how close) is behind you should you need to haul it up quickly. Not always a newbie issue either ...

[Katman]

We now have cars that have removed the need to learn how to parallel park too.

All in the name of dumbing down society, I guess.

[Ocean1]

Very true, as a couple of riders found out on a club run, Vicky slammed on the brakes on the can am... believe me those things haul up bloody fast, it caught then out completely. (Spyder's have traction, abs, etc as standard.)

Can testify to that, they stop quicker than anything you're likely to find on a public road.

[MrKiwi]

Sorry, can't agree with that statement.

If stopping in the shortest possible distance is the only requirement then maybe you'd be right.

But in the circumstance of scrubbing off as much speed as possible and then swerving to avoid a hazard, a death grip on the brake lever ain't going to do you any good.

And that, in a nutshell, is my greatest concern about ABS.

I can see it producing a breed of motorcyclist whose only reaction in an emergency becomes squeezing the lever as hard as they can.

Say what!???

The whole point of ABS on bikes (and cars for that matter) is to allow you to scrub off as much speed as you can/want/need to and still safety steer! End of story.

[Katman]

Say what!???

The whole point of ABS on bikes (and cars for that matter) is to allow you to scrub off as much speed as you can/want/need to and still safety steer! End of story.

Really?

I thought the whole point of ABS was to prevent the wheel locking up.

Have you tried veering suddenly to the side while under maximum braking force?

[pritch]

But that's your Luddite response.

Exactly. With the exception of dirt bikes there is no intelligent reason not to have ABS. The Luddite "riding gods" that think they can do better are deluding themselves. As has been pointed out, they soon won't have the option if they want a new bike.

I've never owned a bike with ABS but I'd be happy to have it. My understanding from those who have extensive experience with it is that you have to be braking seriously hard to activate the ABS at all. Most riders, particularly those who look further up the road than their front wheel, will never feel it operate.

[Katman]

Exactly. With the exception of dirt bikes there is no intelligent reason not to have ABS. The Luddite "riding gods" that think they can do better are deluding themselves. As has been pointed out, they soon won't have the option if they want a new bike.

Just to clarify my opinion.......

Regardless of how vital I consider myself to the continuing viability of global motorcycling (let's see how many of you take that comment seriously) I'm not deluded enough to think that the CEO's of the big Japanese four are calling a crisis meeting with their European counterparts to discuss that fact that Katman has pointed out that they've got it wrong.

You're welcome to your ABS. I'm highly unlikely to ever own a bike with it.

I simply see a danger of motorcyclists seeing ABS as some form of magical power.

I'd far prefer to see riders recognising their own limitations and aiming to improve their riding skill rather than relying on the ability to squeeze a lever tight.

[Corse1]

I voted have ABS but never felt it come on...but I have felt the REAR come on quite a few times. I voted negative as I have hauled up pretty fast in emergency situations and never felt the front come on at all.
Often thought I would give it a try on gravel just to see if the system is actually working but have never had the balls to give it a try

I do believe there is a benefit for ABS, in the dry it is non intrusive on my model bike anyway, but knowing its there in the wet gives a measure of comfortable assurance. Thats if I ever have the balls to prove it is actually working. i figure if the rear cuts in every now and then, the front must be working as front and rear are controlled by the same ABS module. Hard braking lifts weight off the rear which is the reason I feel the ABS working.

Rather have ABS than the Honda linked brake system

[bogan]

Really?

I thought the whole point of ABS was to prevent the wheel locking up.

Have you tried veering suddenly to the side while under maximum braking force?

Raises an interesting point, maximum braking force on most sportsbikes is going to be less than the tractive force available to prevent an endo. So in theory you could still turn it. With good ABS I think it would be very doable. However if the ABS takes over somewhat roughly, that'll mess with the cornering ability by unsettling the suspension etc. Perhaps more to the point though, is you could apply max braking force while cornering with the knowledge that it'll just stand the bike up and not wash the front out.

[GrayWolf]

Really?

I thought the whole point of ABS was to prevent the wheel locking up.

Have you tried veering suddenly to the side while under maximum braking force?

See my post YES I have,,,,,,

although I will agree/admit.. the dreaded sprotbike suspension is likely to react to ABS input differently to a tourer,,, then again I am not a believer of semi race suspension set ups on roads that are certainly not even 'fractionally race surfaces'

[Katman]

then again I am not a believer of semi race suspension set ups on roads that are certainly not even 'fractionally race surfaces'

Neither am I.

But that's the reality that we have to deal with.

[Edbear]

Fact remains that aside from the revered in his own mind Katman, everyone who has used or tried ABS including the ones in all the links here says it is a good thing, especially those who have had their arse saved by it.

General opinion today from the riders at HD was that it is a good thing. Stroudy says it would be handy in the wet, and if anyone should know how to brake it is him.

As the tech develops it will become intuitive and useful everywhere. As I said about my Kizashi, with every passive and active safety feature available, it is still fun to drive as they are there for emergencies not to drive the car for you. You still need to know how to ride or drive if you want to stay right side up and on the road. It's rubbish to talk about the dumbing down of riders or drivers. They still crash and kill themselves and others with or without the safety features.