Emergency braking practice

[george formby]

That makes sense for racing, but on the road when I would usually cruise in 4th gear at 50km/h there wouldn't be time to engine brake? I made an effort every time to try engine brake as well but several times I stalled as I stopped. Do you let the bike stall and not worry about downshifting? Just pull the clutch in same time as the front brake and come to a stop whilst still in 4th gear and use the brake for all rear braking?

Well, as was explained to me. Would you rather be on someones bumper with the engine running or looking at it with the engine stalled. In practice I change down. When I'm really squealing the front tire I just remember to whip the clutch in at the last second coz I'm shiting meself. I was also taught to use 4 fingers on the brake. Prior, I would use 2 or 3 but ended up not fully closing the throttle when it came to the crunch. We adjusted our brake levers to make this easier.

I learned eons ago to look where I want to go. Saved my ass on the road numerous times but when I started braking practice my head went down at the same rate as the forks. Bloody amateur. I ended up with a wee sticker on my handle bars to remind me.... The shame.

This pops into mind a lot when I'm practicing. S'cuse the pun.

[george formby]

That makes sense, the rear braking first will squat the bike down so the front forks will already be under load and the lower bike will stop faster with less risk of going over the handlebars?

Kind of. I find on the DT that using the brakes initially together gets the bike stopping fairly level but as the weight moves forward the rear wheel starts to lift, only when the forks are really compressed does the rear brake come into play again. On the TDM it's more linear because it's fat & just squats at both ends. Keeping your head up helps keep your weight back. I should imagine on your bike it would not be to hard to get the arse up in the air, the wee DT will do it. Not sure if you remember but it was the blue trailie with L plate flapping & my red jacketed G/F riding when you were oop north. We joined you for the run down from Kerikeri.
Sprot bikes are predominantly front brake after the initial grab too. I started this with a guy on a 900ss & he did his first ever stoppie. Different bikes have different dynamics, which is why practice makes so much sense.

[caspernz]

Good topic Haydes

Tricky subject for an up and coming rider to get their head around...the old panic or emergency stop.
Personally, for a full on panic stop it's declutch and apply front and rear as quickly and harshly as the head reckons is sensible for the prevailing road conditions. With practice you'll find you can apply loads of front brake without any of that funny stuff of taking a flying leap over the bars, or locking the front wheel.

Good on ya for the initiative to learn, and to share it with this harsh audience

[Maha]

That makes sense, the rear braking first will squat the bike down so the front forks will already be under load and the lower bike will stop faster with less risk of going over the handlebars?

I told that very thing a long time ago by a very experienced rider, and have used the rear brake effectively and successfully ever since.
Only ''old school'' riders would say different cos thats how they were taught 80 years ago....
Downhill rear brake use and gear selection seats the bike nicely, doesn't have to much, you can feel it working.

[caspernz]

I told that very thing a long time ago by a very experienced rider, and have used the rear brake effectively and successfully ever since.
Only ''old school'' riders would say different cos thats how they were taught 80 years ago....
Downhill rear brake use and gear selection seats the bike nicely, doesn't have to much, you can feel it working.

Yep, rear brake first going downhill is the go for relaxed riding

[george formby]

Yep, rear brake first going downhill is the go for relaxed riding

Yarp. Regardless of surface.

[haydes55]

Kind of. I find on the DT that using the brakes initially together gets the bike stopping fairly level but as the weight moves forward the rear wheel starts to lift, only when the forks are really compressed does the rear brake come into play again. On the TDM it's more linear because it's fat & just squats at both ends. Keeping your head up helps keep your weight back. I should imagine on your bike it would not be to hard to get the arse up in the air, the wee DT will do it. Not sure if you remember but it was the blue trailie with L plate flapping & my red jacketed G/F riding when you were oop north. We joined you for the run down from Kerikeri.
Sprot bikes are predominantly front brake after the initial grab too. I started this with a guy on a 900ss & he did his first ever stoppie. Different bikes have different dynamics, which is why practice makes so much sense.

I remember that bike. Perfect learners machines if you aren't too short. Isn't much harm in dropping it whilst learning.

I'll probably make a habit of practising as regularly as possible (lets be honest, it's loads of fun as well).

Speaking of dynamics, I have no idea about suspension set-ups, but I think the KLX's front is a bit soft. I know it's got huge travel being a dirt bike, but wondering if I need to stiffen it for road use?

[awa355]

I told that very thing a long time ago by a very experienced rider, and have used the rear brake effectively and successfully ever since.
Only ''old school'' riders would say different cos thats how they were taught 80 years ago....
Downhill rear brake use and gear selection seats the bike nicely, doesn't have to much, you can feel it working.

80 years ago, we just fed the army greatcoat into the rear wheel. Worked about as well as any factory built rear brake.

[george formby]

I'll probably make a habit of practising as regularly as possible (lets be honest, it's loads of fun as well).

Speaking of dynamics, I have no idea about suspension set-ups, but I think the KLX's front is a bit soft. I know it's got huge travel being a dirt bike, but wondering if I need to stiffen it for road use?

I bet you break a sweat when you practice in the rain, though...

Both the DT & TDM have soft fronts. Now that I'm used to the way they dive I quite like it. My initial grab on the brake has got harder or maybe quicker as I've practised, I let the suspension avoid an instant lock up. Once compressed the feed back is good. You can hear the front tire "shushing". At this point it's starting to leave a bit of tread on the road. I doubt I'm using more than 80% of the fork travel
When you start a u-turn with the front brake on, the steering geometry steepens a lot & makes the radius very tight. The DT will do a 180 with the rear wheel travelling less than a metre laterally from entry to exit. I'm a still not confident enough to manage this on the TDM but getting closer.

Have a look at GP 8 on youtube. It's an exercise which combines maximum braking, steering & acceleration.

Here ya go. The greater the distance between the cones the more you need to use the front brake on entry, your travelling faster. You use the back brake to maintain speed through the turn, keep the throttle open & apply the back brake to turn, release to accelerate out. After a few runs you can light a ciggie on the rear disk.

[haydes55]

I bet you break a sweat when you practice in the rain, though...

Both the DT & TDM have soft fronts. Now that I'm used to the way they dive I quite like it. My initial grab on the brake has got harder or maybe quicker as I've practised, I let the suspension avoid an instant lock up. Once compressed the feed back is good. You can hear the front tire "shushing". At this point it's starting to leave a bit of tread on the road. I doubt I'm using more than 80% of the fork travel
When you start a u-turn with the front brake on, the steering geometry steepens a lot & makes the radius very tight. The DT will do a 180 with the rear wheel travelling less than a metre laterally from entry to exit. I'm a still not confident enough to manage this on the TDM but getting closer.

Have a look at GP 8 on youtube. It's an exercise which combines maximum braking, steering & acceleration.

Here ya go. The greater the distance between the cones the more you need to use the front brake on entry, your travelling faster. You use the back brake to maintain speed through the turn, keep the throttle open & apply the back brake to turn, release to accelerate out. After a few runs you can light a ciggie on the rear disk.

That GP8 looks easy to set up, good to practise and measurable results as well. (Plus the motards looked the best in that video).

Use the soft suspension to your advantage then, I'll learn

[george formby]

It's huge fun, cheap & easy. We use tennis balls cut in half.. Scary too, but we started slow, still are..
On another forum quite a few riders are really getting stuck into stuff like this on all kinds of bikes. With the GP 8 the falling off point comes when you hit the mid 30's it seems. This is the point when flaws in your technique really stand out. I find it really hard to do faster times. The smoothness & bike control required is epic. Way beyond what you think it takes. Have fun!!