Speeding Ticket - Advice!

[Arrowolf]

You payed it, you learned a lesson, it will not happen again.
You payed it, you want to have fun on the bike, it will happen again.

Your choice !

[PseudoDave]

You payed it, you learned a lesson, it will not happen again.
You payed it, you want to have fun on the bike, it will happen again.

Your choice !

I will just hit the track up here to push it, and find a nice little road in which I can't speed on to relax.

Anyone know any decent roads like that? I only know the Coromandel area which is always too busy and the West Coast/Woodcocks Rd which is probably my favourite at the moment close to Auckland..

[Gremlin]

May actually consider a Radar Detector, just to be extra safe in the future!

A radar detector isn't a magic device to stop speeding tickets. You can't expect to speed, and it's going to warn you ahead of time. Cops will use instant on, so no warning is given. I have a radar detector (a good one) and wrack up many km. I don't use it to speed, simply to know when to keep a closer eye on my speedo, and whether it's safe to overtake this car here, or maybe later, but generally, I'm not speeding.

I will just hit the track up here to push it, and find a nice little road in which I can't speed on to relax.

Anyone know any decent roads like that?

Take speed to the track. You'll never know (on any road) if a tractor has just pulled out of a driveway, or there is a pile of loose stones around the next corner. That said, just go explore, all roads in NZ are fun, one way or another.

[nzmikey]

Sounds like you failed the attitude test roadside too ...

Prrffttt there is no such thing ... The cunt that fucked me last year was not giving a fuck either way & I kept my mouth shut for once & was nice to him.

Not so much next time

[FJRider]

Prrffttt there is no such thing ... The cunt that fucked me last year was not giving a fuck either way & I kept my mouth shut for once & was nice to him.

Not so much next time

We do have a few of those down here too. I got pinged once for 126 km/hr ... on a road I hadn't seen a cop on in 20 years. Turns out he had been responding to a 111 police emergency call in the area. And returning to the station ... as usual ... turned the radar on and was trolling for business.
Lucky me eh .. !!

Saying nothing apart from polite answers to the usual questions (while admitting nothing) with a smile on the dial ... has got me a better end result ... than questioning/ranting ... the legality/fairness/point/reason for being stopped. (funny that)

Anybody that exceeds any posted speed limit (anywhere/any road) can expect to be ticketed. If they aren't ... it's a good day for them.

[scumdog]

Prrffttt there is no such thing ... The cunt that fucked me last year was not giving a fuck either way & I kept my mouth shut for once & was nice to him.

Not so much next time

How come I read that sort of comment from North Islanders so ofter?

And rarely hear of it from South Islanders?

Glad I live in the south - the deep south...you can shove your warmer weather, big concerts and cockroaches...

[McFatty1000]

Yeah, the South is good for that from my experience

Managed to pass 'the test' when I was pulled over, ended up having a good talk with a cop who rode as well (Not a bike cop), prob learnt a better lesson then and there than any ticket would have taught

[Coldrider]

Nah it's not that good, I've had a cockroach freeride me down to the Brass. You could tell who hadn't seen one before.

[BoristheBiter]

How come I read that sort of comment from North Islanders so ofter?

And rarely hear of it from South Islanders?

Glad I live in the south - the deep south...you can shove your warmer weather, big concerts and cockroaches...

Because we have traffic Nazi's that love to take licences of bikers.
They are twats, and are an embarrassment to the police name and most GD wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.

One wank stain in particular likes to bait bikes by flying up behind them, tail gating then backing off then doing it again to get the bike to speed off.
Forgets we all know what he does so we just a wee laugh and go on with our day.

And yes you ginger cunt if you are trolling our forums again I do mean you.
(SG if you are ginger I don't mean you)

[nzmikey]

How come I read that sort of comment from North Islanders so ofter?

And rarely hear of it from South Islanders?

Glad I live in the south - the deep south...you can shove your warmer weather, big concerts and cockroaches...

If there we some good paying jobs, less shaky ground, less corrupt landlords & less southerners I would be there ....
but for now I am stuck in the N.I. ... more to the point stuck in NZ until the woman finishes her degree & starts making some real money .

Then I can kick back & do my projects & I spose some form of parenting.

[R650R]

This part is incorrect. The cops cannot demand to see the entire day's record on the chance that you were going faster somewhere else. They must have good reason to suspect that you committed an offence at a certain place and time, and then they can get a search warrnt to obtain any data that you have pertaining to that time and place.



I suspect the "procedural error" was the illegal obtaining of evidence. Can you ask your trucky mate to either verify this, or to comment on what else the procedural error might have been.

In regard to point one as soon as the video or gps record is entered into evidence the cops have the right to examine it. An astute prosecuter would probably ask to see a wider timeframe to verify the accuracy of the image/data. In any case he's already known to be speeding and on a high performance vehicle it would be a simple matter for the cops to get a warrant. In the truck company case don't think it was a warrant he just asked that the 'records be handed over forthwith', its not as difficult as made out in some tv shows.
Bit like in how many murder cases the defence lawyer doesn't let the defendant testify evidence to defend himslef as they know the cops will have him say something damaging as they have the right to cross examine evidence and witnesses.

I sat in the court room to watch the case. The error was in producing the evidence as hearsay, as they couldn't produce anyone to testify the accuracy of the data and couldn't even state where the server was located that stored the data or if it was even in NZ. If it was straight speeding they would have nailed him due to previous court precedents but the case was about dates and times at certain GPS locations versus logbook entries. He was quite lucky to get off and I suspect the cops won't be making the same mistake again. I would say it will be very expensive for anyone to try defend a similar case in the future as there will be significant witness expenses from having experts from the gps,data and fuelcard centres testify as to the accuracy of times on their systems.
Moral of the story is if you having fancy techno gps goodies in your vehicle or Eroad GPS type road tax units installed you need to really behave yourself out there.

[Jantar]

In regard to point one as soon as the video or gps record is entered into evidence the cops have the right to examine it. An astute prosecuter would probably ask to see a wider timeframe to verify the accuracy of the image/data.

This is absolutely correct. Therefore if entering GPS data as evidence, then you must supply a printout of the data from further away than the radar could possibly have detected you and allowed an officer to absolutely identify the vehicle in the beam. This would be a minimum of 2 km, and would tend to use double that, or 4 km before the point at which the alleged speeding took place. A printable file of the output in either CSV or Excel format should be available to show where the printout came from. Also a secure file of that same section of the record in the origional GPS format must be made available for police examination should they so wish. However it is not neccessary to supply 8000 km of travel data (which is what my GPS holds) to prove what happened at that time and place.

In any case he's already known to be speeding ....

No he isn't. Untill found guilty by the court he is only suspected of speeding.

.........

I sat in the court room to watch the case. The error was in producing the evidence as hearsay, as they couldn't produce anyone to testify the accuracy of the data and couldn't even state where the server was located that stored the data or if it was even in NZ.

Most GPS systems store the data onboard. I know trucking companies also store it on a server, and I archive my GPS data onto my home computer, but the data used in evidence must be date and time stamped with the download time, and date and time stamped with the file conversion time. It is not necessary for anyone to testify to the accuracy of the data if the secure file is in the origional GPS format, because that data cannot be altered. Glider pilots use this as evidence of completing tasks, as any file that is uploaded into the GPS is automatically stripped of timing data.

.....
Moral of the story is if you having fancy techno gps goodies in your vehicle or Eroad GPS type road tax units installed you need to really behave yourself out there.

Again I agree. I have been stopped by a cop and accused of speeding when I knew I wasn't. I asked him to note that the bike was equiped with a GPS, that the GPS was recording, that the GPS time was dd-mm-yyyy hh:mm:ss, that the GPS location was xxx.xx.xx yyy.yy.yy, and to note the serial number of the GPS as it is in the metadata of the download. Instead, he got back into his car and drove off without giving me a ticket. In that particular incident I would have happy for the whole 1650 km ride to have made available as evidence as I was pre-riding the 1000 miler route and ensuring that I was staying within the speed limit, or within 10 kmh above or below it as muich as possible. Antime I found myself even slightly above I would back off to 95 - 100. So when the cop claimed I was doing 117 kmh I knew he was bullshitting, and the GPS would have confirmed that.

[R650R]

It is not necessary for anyone to testify to the accuracy of the data if the secure file is in the origional GPS format, because that data cannot be altered.

It is a right under common law for the defendant and probably the prosecution also to be able to cross examine any evidence and question/cross examine the provider of that evidence. Hence entering data or a computer printout was pronounced as hearsay evidence as its from a third party not present in the court who cannot be questioned. This was from one of HB's top lawyers and the cops and judge squirmed when he read it out as they knew the whole case was blown right there. Although we as ordinary people accept gps in a court there needs to be a real person to testify that the system timeclock hasn't been altered during maintanance and is accurate also, did it compensate for daylight savings etc. Same with the fuelcard receipts there was no one from the service station or fuel company to testify. For some reason the clock at Caltex bombay was always out by 45mins as a perfect example of trusting data.

Even devices like satnav and phones also record peak speeds and time/place stamps as administrative data on the service providors network, even if your not making a call. They store this data (very cheap to do so) so they know what there customers want/need/go, where to build the extra cellphone towers etc. This data can be accessed if needed.

Bottom line in this case is you don't want to be waving gadgets around like this unless you are squeaky clean.

[Jantar]

..... Although we as ordinary people accept gps in a court there needs to be a real person to testify that the system timeclock hasn't been altered during maintanance and is accurate also, did it compensate for daylight savings etc. .........

Hence the reason for requesting that the officer note the GPS time and location as displayed on the device at the time and location of the offence. That way even if the GPS timeclock had been altered to some other reference point (not likely in New Zealand, but potentially possible) then as long as the GPS time recorded by the officer matches the GPS time of the printout and the origional file sample, then it wouldn't matter if it no longer matched NZST or NZDT. What is important is that the time stamp at each sample step is consistant, and that time step is at satelite level, not device level. The Device gets its reference time from the satelites.

Here is part of a typical GPS record where the GPS is set to record at every change of speed of more than 5% of any change of direction. The format here is:
Record # dd/mm/yyyy hh:mm:ss Elevation Leg-m leg-time Leg-speed Heading Lat Lon

1079 13/11/2010 9:59:56 a.m. 330 m 25 m 0:00:01 91 km/h 120° true S44 54.273 E168 24.802
1080 13/11/2010 9:59:57 a.m. 330 m 130 m 0:00:05 94 km/h 101° true S44 54.280 E168 24.819
1081 13/11/2010 10:00:02 a.m. 326 m 136 m 0:00:05 98 km/h 113° true S44 54.293 E168 24.916
1082 13/11/2010 10:00:07 a.m. 330 m 98 m 0:00:04 88 km/h 142° true S44 54.322 E168 25.011
1083 13/11/2010 10:00:11 a.m. 329 m 52 m 0:00:02 94 km/h 157° true S44 54.364 E168 25.057
1084 13/11/2010 10:00:13 a.m. 329 m 110 m 0:00:04 99 km/h 146° true S44 54.390 E168 25.072

[nzpomybikerider]

Being an old codger, my advise is to pay up and move on, maybe keep to the back roads whenever possible and if on the main highway keep to the speed limit