How much control will bikes have over the rider - do we want or need it.

[cheshirecat]

"such as satellite aided transmission, which uses GPS positioning to work out where the car is and what the driver might be about to do next and select the most appropriate gear"

This is the spec for the current RR Wraith. Its not inconceivable MC's could feature similar in the future. Honda already utilise Gyro systems from their robots (Asimov) to link to the riders imput rather than directly to the Moto GP bike and it wouldn't be a big step to link to centimeter accurate GPS unless they've already done it.

Now I've never ridden a bike with ABS or traction control and I'd rather like riding a bike with carbs and and relatively free from riding enhancers for want of a better phrase. The uncomfortable feeling is that this attitude could be very dated and I could soon be missing out in a big way especially rider safety.

[98tls]

Uh-huh.Wont matter if those that get it want it or need it thing is they by the time they do wont know any different,like everything else things are changing and its monkey see monkey do.At age 50 i despise cellphones so have a guess as to my need for ABS on a motorcycle ridden in the real world on real world roadsMy eyes still glaze over everytime i hear some cunt bang on about the latest GSXR1000s ability on a track relayed to me by some nob that wouldnt know where the closest track to him was....Sadly motorcycles/motorcycling has become infested with those that cant choose between having a laugh with a booze hag or wearing a handbag so they wobble about on the latest fashion accessory making the rest of us look like cunts,The whinging is a giveaway.

[\m/]

While I see ABS as having it's place anything else just seems pointless to me. Traction control and wheelie control? Be more careful with the throttle. Switchable power maps? Could be useful if you have tunes for different fuels or have a turbo and different boost settings, otherwise waste of time, used it once on my 750 just to see how it worked and haven't bothered with it since.

[Road kill]

So long as we have a choice in the matter I don't care,but what does concern me are the odds on we won't have any choice.

[GrayWolf]

ABS is a good thing, but I would like to see it 'switchable',, there are times it can hamper braking.
Traction control? With some of today's high power sports bikes I can see a use for it. They are light and have high BHP motors that if ridden in the wet, greasy conditions etc, can be a 'handful' and a rain, or soft power delivery setting could be useful..
So could possibly an economy/tour mode? Oh hang on we are talking Mr Rossi wannabe's here........

With the bigger heavier 'sport/tour' ZX14/'Busa etc.. they have a lot more weight and the steering geometry isnt usually as 'sharp'... But I am sure that sadly TPBT will eventually insist in Yrup that these things are a fixed requirement.
Due to emission laws FI is here to stay, so the aftermarket 'fuel controller' is our only option, unless you have an ECU that CAN be re-flashed.
I hope it wasnt a portent of things to come, but Yamaha placed an almost 'untunable' ECU in the MT-01's, under 200rpm the closed loop 02 can only be worked around using the most expensive version of the power commander and with a couple of pricey extra units.. But of course they DID produce, at high cost.. 2 'racing' versions of the ECU/ignition/immobiliser unit. (of course all in one unit so you have to buy the whole shebang)

[Dragon]

ABS is a good thing, but I would like to see it 'switchable',, there are times it can hamper braking.
Traction control? With some of today's high power sports bikes I can see a use for it. They are light and have high BHP motors that if ridden in the wet, greasy conditions etc, can be a 'handful' and a rain, or soft power delivery setting could be useful..
So could possibly an economy/tour mode? Oh hang on we are talking Mr Rossi wannabe's here........

With the bigger heavier 'sport/tour' ZX14/'Busa etc.. they have a lot more weight and the steering geometry isnt usually as 'sharp'... But I am sure that sadly TPBT will eventually insist in Yrup that these things are a fixed requirement.
Due to emission laws FI is here to stay, so the aftermarket 'fuel controller' is our only option, unless you have an ECU that CAN be re-flashed.
I hope it wasnt a portent of things to come, but Yamaha placed an almost 'untunable' ECU in the MT-01's, under 200rpm the closed loop 02 can only be worked around using the most expensive version of the power commander and with a couple of pricey extra units.. But of course they DID produce, at high cost.. 2 'racing' versions of the ECU/ignition/immobiliser unit. (of course all in one unit so you have to buy the whole shebang)

ITs not hard to wire in a switch to turn abs off have done this on a few cars ive had for use during gravel racing or driving in snow etc

[SMOKEU]

There's nothing like fancy electronics to somewhat counteract the stupidity of the rider.

[ducatilover]

ABS is a good thing, but I would like to see it 'switchable',, there are times it can hamper braking.

I agree with this, I have a mate who just got a GSF1250 and it's fitted with ABS, he said it's incredibly good on tarmac, but not so fantastic down his gravel road. He said it does well for itself stopping in straight lines on gravel, but would prefer the ability to back it in etc.

I'm all for ABS, as much as the keyboard warriors think they're better than an ABS system, they aren't. ABS doesn't get surprises...
Mind you, ABS won't help a lot on my Kawasaki, it goes in to a stoppie and I've never locked the front. May help if one has a big panic in a corner? But it'll just stand the bike up anyway (in my head)

[swbarnett]

centimeter accurate GPS

Such a thing doesn't exist and most likely won't. Current GPS is prone to atmospheric conditions that are very difficult if not impossible to compensate for.

[cheshirecat]

Such a thing doesn't exist and most likely won't. Current GPS is prone to atmospheric conditions that are very difficult if not impossible to compensate for.

yes slightly out by a couple of cm's

Progressive agr Lieca systems

[Road kill]

There's nothing like fancy electronics to somewhat counteract the stupidity of the rider.

A non electronic gate would of stopped you parking in your own drive way,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.

[swbarnett]

yes slightly out by a couple of cm's

Progressive agr Lieca systems

This is not a single "where am I" system. This appears to be a relative system that will tell the GPS where it is relative to the last reading by 2cm. It could still be wildly out but it doesn't matter as it's the relatice posiotin between readings that matters.

GPS works by measuring the relative travel times of signals from the GPS unit to multiple satallites. Changes in atmospheric density or things like cosmic storms can wreak havic with these measurements.

[Mom]

ABS is a good thing, but I would like to see it 'switchable',, there are times it can hamper braking.
Traction control? With some of today's high power sports bikes I can see a use for it. They are light and have high BHP motors that if ridden in the wet, greasy conditions etc, can be a 'handful' and a rain, or soft power delivery setting could be useful..
So could possibly an economy/tour mode? Oh hang on we are talking Mr Rossi wannabe's here........

I ride a standard bike. No ABS, No trak control.

I like to think I am my bikes ABS system. Modern brakes are so responsive, even a newbie like me can manage to progressivly stop, even in emergency situations. Far out, in the olden days you used to slap the picks on and pray you were going to stop in time. Even then the desired braking did not involve a locked wheel. To be fair though, I have experienced the sideways, rear wheel on full lock slide (my front brake cable snapped thank goodness), newbie mistake when faced with a car that pulls out directly in front of you.

I am a bit old fashioned and believe that we should all develop, learn, practise the skills required to stop, fast, without a lock up. ABS is for us old farkers. Trak control? I leave that to those that might actually benefit from it.

My advice to people stepping up to a "faster" than they are used to bike, has always been "take off in 2nd gear" to start with. Does not take long to get used to torque, this is an way way to avoid the "grab a handfull, lose control" take offs that are the stuff of many utube clips

[GrayWolf]

I ride a standard bike. No ABS, No trak control.

I like to think I am my bikes ABS system. Modern brakes are so responsive, even a newbie like me can manage to progressivly stop, even in emergency situations. Far out, in the olden days you used to slap the picks on and pray you were going to stop in time. Even then the desired braking did not involve a locked wheel. To be fair though, I have experienced the sideways, rear wheel on full lock slide (my front brake cable snapped thank goodness), newbie mistake when faced with a car that pulls out directly in front of you.

I am a bit old fashioned and believe that we should all develop, learn, practise the skills required to stop, fast, without a lock up. ABS is for us old farkers. Trak control? I leave that to those that might actually benefit from it.

My advice to people stepping up to a "faster" than they are used to bike, has always been "take off in 2nd gear" to start with. Does not take long to get used to torque, this is an way way to avoid the "grab a handfull, lose control" take offs that are the stuff of many utube clips

I would agree 200% Mom, I learnt, and made a lot of mistakes in the 'pre ABS' decades. Oh how right you are, even the twin leading shoe drum brakes were only just adequate, and early disc brakes? they were hardly better than drum, and when the rain came? I along with many old fuckers will remember well the apply brakes and WAIIIIIIIIIIT, oh shit are they going to work, moment, or 3, or 4
Modern brakes on some bikes (usually light sprotties, are capable of standing the bike on it's front wheel.
Progressive stopping can be practised, and you can become highly competent at it, but I would disagree, that you will ALWAYS apply them progressively in every emergency situation. I would imagine many of us with 750,000km's and above could recount many instances where the situation has resulted in the PANIC GRAB, and modern brakes are becoming totally unforgiving of such an error.
Again I would agree 200%, ride like you dont have ABS, learn all the skills of riding without ABS, but from experience, I can assure you there are times abs WILL save your arse!!

[swbarnett]

but I would disagree, that you will ALWAYS apply them progressively in every emergency situation.

Train your subconscious well enough and, yes, EVERY time will be progressive. I have grabbed a handful in panic a few times but have never fully locked the wheel (I did get my 1980s CBX550's front wheel skipping as if it had ABS). I even had one situation where my conscious brain insisted I needed rear brake but my foot just would not move. I realised afterwards that if I had applied the rear brake I would've been down for sure. My subconscious brain overrode the instruction because it knew better.