Why should a new rider go for low-powered bikes?

[GrayWolf]

I am pretty much a newbie I only rode a 250cc ZZR for 1 year or so then I got a 1100cc ZZR and I really am starting to think it's a myth that you will kill yourself if you start on a high powered bike.

It's pretty much the same but harder on the handling but still if you don't ride like a mad man I don't see how it is suicide. The front wheel does come up by mistake sometimes but it's never caused me to crash or any grief as such you simply lay off the throttle.

What is your thoughts on this? I reckon an idiots an idiot and will kill themselves on a anything > 50cc anyway.

Yes of course it's a Myth, it's always a 'myth' till it happens... The very fact, "Quote front wheel does come up by mistake" Show's you have not mastered the bike properly, not acclimatised to it's performance.. oh BTW, I OWN a ZZR1100D3, so am VERY familiar with the performance.

What about going from a 250cc to 1000cc > I really think it depends on the type of bike. The ZZR models seem to handle much the same and they not a heavy bike even at the higher power range.

That is very true it was HEAVY as hell for a 250cc sportsbike. Maybe that is why my 1100 feels light.

NOT a HEAVY BIKE?? at close to 260kg wet, they aint light, most modern thou's are 50-60 kilo's LIGHTER than a ZZR.


Even I didn't ride my 250cc for very long I rode arould whole NZ on it so I guess that is a bit more experience then someone riding for 5 years to work in Auckland alone.

You guessed WRONG, you could do 5000 km's a month for 3-4 months over the summer.... the guy who rides to work every day will have more 'experience'.. he's ridden in summer, autumn (greasy roads and leaves) spring and Winter... Untill you have ridden regularly in ALL weather/seasonal conditions you are NOT experienced.. and even then, it could take several years to learn to compensate for all types of conditions,,, good example was the 3 days of snow the other Winter in Wellington, first time in 60 years!

But like I said before this is more of riding someone else bike thing. I have to give my bike a lot of throttle at 7-10rpms range to make the front wheel come up and it's 1.1L. .

Again shows lack of experience,,,, ZZR's are 'continent blaster's'... they were designed as a high speed 'intercontinental ballistic missile'... They are KNOWN to be quite 'docile' below 6k rev's, and ridden gently are a pussycat. It's once used in anger above 6k, the true nature of the bike comes out, and I can assure you 20yrs old or not, my D3 is still a lot of bike for performance even by today's standards...
The 'difference' is the ZZR is a heavy slower turning bike (length, rake, trail) compared to a sprottie, the suspension, brakes are known to be soft and slow stopping.... hence why many ZZR1.1's ended up with braided lines and/or replacement brake caliper's... and front forks being 'worked on'.... However, saying that... compared to an FJ1200 which was THE 'Master Blaster' for continent shredding till the ZZR, it handles and stops far better. Oh and I have one of those (FJ) sitting in the garage too!
The reason the front doesnt come up 'easily' is due to the weight overall, length of the bike, and how the performance is delivered,,,, The FJ will completely outclass the ZZR for top gear low speed roll on power, as low down grunt is/was the FJ's forte.. once you hit 6k? Rocketship ZZR leaves and FJ for dead...... Considering that 6k in top on a ZZR is 150kph? the power in top is only really usable on 'Unrestricted roads' like Autobahns....

[Mushu]

If you lift the front wheel because you don't know what bike you're on how do you make it around corners without winding up on your ass (if you aren't rolling on the throttle through a corner you're doing it wrong), if I gave the R6 the same handful of throttle I give the ninja through corners it would change direction instantly, but I would keep going into a fence.

I looked up some if your other threads, and I'm sure you're either a troll or an idiot. Also if you need your girlfriends help to pick up your bike when dropped you shouldn't be riding it.

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2

[caspernz]

I looked up some if your other threads, and I'm sure you're a troll AND an idiot.

Fixed it for you

[Banditbandit]

but still if you don't ride like a mad man I don't see how it is suicide.

Your answer is here ... too may people do ride like madmen - I have lost friends doing exactly that - getting a big bike and then opening the throttle wide ... crashing and burning ...

[Banditbandit]

This place gets more retarded by the day.

Now you're being repetative ...

[Erelyes]

Perhaps this is our licencing system at fault a bit.

'Stuck' on a LAMS bike for 2 years then it's all go, to whatever the hell you want. No stepping stone in many cases.

You could go from a bike like mine (19hp/132kg) straight onto a supersport with like 4x or more the power/weight ratio.

Ideally I think you'd be on your L for a year, then your R for a year. And you get access to a wider range of bikes on your R, whilst still within sane power/weights. So a ninja 650 or a Gladius would be OK but not an R6 / R1 yamma.

[tigertim20]

Perhaps this is our licencing system at fault a bit.

'Stuck' on a LAMS bike for 2 years then it's all go, to whatever the hell you want. No stepping stone in many cases.

You could go from a bike like mine (19hp/132kg) straight onto a supersport with like 4x or more the power/weight ratio.

Ideally I think you'd be on your L for a year, then your R for a year. And you get access to a wider range of bikes on your R, whilst still within sane power/weights. So a ninja 650 or a Gladius would be OK but not an R6 / R1 yamma.

the lams system is way better than what we had previously!!!

[Glowerss]

Perhaps this is our licencing system at fault a bit.

'Stuck' on a LAMS bike for 2 years then it's all go, to whatever the hell you want. No stepping stone in many cases.

You could go from a bike like mine (19hp/132kg) straight onto a supersport with like 4x or more the power/weight ratio.

Ideally I think you'd be on your L for a year, then your R for a year. And you get access to a wider range of bikes on your R, whilst still within sane power/weights. So a ninja 650 or a Gladius would be OK but not an R6 / R1 yamma.

At some stage you're going to have to stop relying on the government to hold your hand and protect you. Short of them wrapping people in cotton wool, people are stupid. Nothing is going to get in the way of stupid people being stupid.

If, after 2 years and a wide array of bikes being available to you under 150 kw/tone limit, you get your full, immediately buy an R1, and bin it (and possibly die), well that's entirely your fault. Probably do the world a favor if after 2 years you still haven't figured things out to be honest, but that's neither here nor there.

The new licensing system is about as good as you're going to get. Stops people from killing themselves while learning, but gives a wider range of more appropriate bikes.

On topic, the reason why you don't let beginners onto high powered bikes is because of 1 word. "Forgiving". Large capacity sports bikes in particular are not in any way forgiving. It's far far easier to get yourself into the shit on a litrebike then say, something like my hornet. My hornet will let you know you're being stupid, but won't throw you off for doing something bad.

Going around a wet corner on something like an R1 and giving it a bit too much gas, is far far more likely to see you in the ditch then a hornet or something LAMS bikes.

I'm not sure why this is even a question though, to be honest. Go find some youtube videos from the states and tell me you think letting anyone jump on any capacity bike is a good idea The ones on mulhulland drive by the rnickeymouse guy are particularly good watching.

[argada]

I believe there is a difference between a "new" rider and someone that never sat on a bike prior to the basic handling test (possibly never used a clutch before, in any vehicle). I was in the second category and I truly believe during the first few weeks of riding - I would have crashed/dropped it had I been on anything more powerful/heavier than a ninja 250.

Memorable moments that I can remember:
- Stalled three times attempting to pull out of a slightly inclined drive way, overcompensated with the throttle on the fourth attempt and rocketed towards the curb on the opposite side of the road. Grabbed a handful worth of front brake - had to use every ounce of strength to keep the damn thing upright - front wheel alarming close to the curb.
- Encountered false neutral for the first time, confused, clicked it back into gear and dumped the clutch. Resulted in a massive wheelie in the middle of a busy intersection.

Doing anything of that on my current bike would be unthinkable.

But a "new" rider with the basics sorted - sure, once you have the "ability" keep it under xyz revs etc., you will probably be fine. It becomes more an issue with self control.

[awayatc]

I did the same with my 250cc about 10 low speed crashes.

10 crashes...?

And you managed to survive on bikes for how long?

Let's talk again in 5 years.

or not.....

[ducatilover]

I believe there is a difference between a "new" rider and someone that never sat on a bike prior to the basic handling test (possibly never used a clutch before, in any vehicle). I was in the second category and I truly believe during the first few weeks of riding - I would have crashed/dropped it had I been on anything more powerful/heavier than a ninja 250.

Memorable moments that I can remember:
- Stalled three times attempting to pull out of a slightly inclined drive way, overcompensated with the throttle on the fourth attempt and rocketed towards the curb on the opposite side of the road. Grabbed a handful worth of front brake - had to use every ounce of strength to keep the damn thing upright - front wheel alarming close to the curb.
- Encountered false neutral for the first time, confused, clicked it back into gear and dumped the clutch. Resulted in a massive wheelie in the middle of a busy intersection.

Doing anything of that on my current bike would be unthinkable.

But a "new" rider with the basics sorted - sure, once you have the "ability" keep it under xyz revs etc., you will probably be fine. It becomes more an issue with self control.

No offence to you matey, but this post outlines why our rider training/licencing in NZ is absolute shite.

[Erelyes]

At some stage you're going to have to stop relying on the government to hold your hand and protect you. Short of them wrapping people in cotton wool, people are stupid. Nothing is going to get in the way of stupid people being stupid.

If, after 2 years and a wide array of bikes being available to you under 150 kw/tone limit, you get your full, immediately buy an R1, and bin it (and possibly die), well that's entirely your fault. Probably do the world a favor if after 2 years you still haven't figured things out to be honest, but that's neither here nor there.

Yeah but I've seen a couple of comments along the lines of "learning to ride a big bike was such a drastic change that it's like learning to ride all over again".

Going from 150kw/tonne to 600kw/tonne would be a lot easier if you rode a 350-400kw/tonne bike inbetween, surely?

You do have a good point that at some stage (early!) the rider has to take responsibility themselves, though. Whether the government should intervene between LAMS and all-bets-off was just something I was suggesting.

I would argue that after a year of riding a LAMS bike, and passing the test to get a restricted, a rider will learn more from a mid-range bike e.g. Gladius, than by riding the LAMS bike for another year.

The new licensing system is about as good as you're going to get. Stops people from killing themselves while learning, but gives a wider range of more appropriate bikes.

The realist in me agrees with your first comment. The idealist in me disagrees. Also the current system doesn't stop learner fatalities... it reduces them. I certainly agree though that LAMS is a shit-ton better than the previous rule.

On topic, the reason why you don't let beginners onto high powered bikes is because of 1 word. "Forgiving". Large capacity sports bikes in particular are not in any way forgiving. It's far far easier to get yourself into the shit on a litrebike then say, something like my hornet. My hornet will let you know you're being stupid, but won't throw you off for doing something bad.

All the more reason for an intermediate step, surely? There is not just 'forgiving' and 'unforgiving'. There is a scale.

I'm not sure why this is even a question though, to be honest. Go find some youtube videos from the states and tell me you think letting anyone jump on any capacity bike is a good idea The ones on mulhulland drive by the rnickeymouse guy are particularly good watching.

Will check out the vids

[Wayz]

Awesome topic, my riding experience started with dirt bikes, I was 14 and owned a 250, then at 16 i was straight onto a 500cc...me being new to road riding I started on a 250cc just to understand the differences between riding road and dirt....after a few months I had it sorted, had a few lessons from a couple experienced riders and away I went. Also gave me the opportunity to ride bigger bikes, from a 1200cc harley to a 1000cc Firestorm, and man what a difference it was. I'm all for newbies to have a crack at bigger bikes, if its going to make you a better rider then it's worth doing.

[Subike]

You guessed WRONG, you could do 5000 km's a month for 3-4 months over the summer.... the guy who rides to work every day will have more 'experience'.. he's ridden in summer, autumn (greasy roads and leaves) spring and Winter... Untill you have ridden regularly in ALL weather/seasonal conditions you are NOT experienced.. and even then, it could take several years to learn to compensate for all types of conditions,,, good example was the 3 days of snow the other Winter in Wellington, first time in 60 years!
..

This statement sums up all of the other shit in regards to riding bigger bikes. 20000k in the past 14mths on a 2fidy and Im still learning.
I own and ride 2 x XS1100 Yamaha, have had a 1200 HD sporty, 1 x 380 suzi 2 smoka, amongst a few others.I have been riding since I was 14. I am Still learning,I will always be learning,
The road changes every season, conditions change by the hour, traffic changes by the mood of the day, yes the mood, sunny days bring out boy racers, rainy days bring out impatient commuters with fogged up windows..Nothing stays the same every day.
I dont care how many miles you have ridden, you will always learn something . And your idea that going to a 1 liter bike for daily riding, over a small nimble 2fidy or what ever ,is ...well...easy as...try riding that 1 liter in a frost, with snow, a southerly, and 300 cold cage drivers all fighting to get to work faster than the guy next to them, Then you will want the little low powered nimble bike that can get you out of trouble faster than the 1 liter.

[Road kill]

Used to be a member of this forum that went by the name FIGJAM and he rode a ZZR250.
Rode it very well actually,but then the silly boy went an bought a ZZR1100.

Pity he never bought insurance to go with it,,,,if ya' know what I mean.

Mind you he's a rusty nut so you'll probably never hear from him again anyway.