VJ Day (Victory over Japan)

[idb]

Things havn't changed much since then... still have no guns

Probably an OSH requirement?

[oldrider]

Fantastic response. I didn't seek a political argument I just wanted to Honor the fallen and those who were disadvantaged (from both sides) so that we could continue to live and enjoy our freedom. I thought maybe it was just forgotten. Obviously and thankfully I was wrong. Strategically I feel we still owe much more to the American people than they (Politics aside) are given credit for. The same as in Iraq today. Cheers John.

[Lias]

Didn't do anything special for VJ day, nor do I do anything special for VE day.. I do however attend dawn parade on Anzac day, and stop for silence on Armistice Day (11th Nov)

[TonyB]

Hey Mate... I never even knew that happened.... how sad am I?

It's not your fault. I distinctly remember being taught at school that NZ was never attacked and that no enemy aircraft or ships even got close. So THAT was wrong, but even worse, I remember being taught that the attack on Darwin was a small one, with a 'stray/ lost aircraft dropping a handful of bombs'. I was amazed to learn a few years ago that it had been a large scale planned attack.

Which raises the question- exactly why weren't we taught the truth?

[TonyB]

John, while I respect your political opinions, and share your sentiments about the significance of the sacrifices made in World War II, I think that your attempt to link today's foreign and military policies with the situation 60 years ago amounts to little more than a gratuitous dig at a PM who, with all due respect, has a better grasp of the realities of power than you.

Our nations defence policies seem to:

1. Be more about international big-noting than actual defence
2. Rely on the Aussies and USA to save us in the event of an attack/ invasion. While I agree that it is unlikely that another nation would take military action against us, I do wonder if our policy makers have ever read Stormin Norman's biography. In it he revealed just how long it took for the US to bring amass enough military power in the Gulf to be able to attack Iraq- it took MONTHS. NZ is small, even if it only took weeks, there wouldn't be much left to save.

[Wolf]

Which raises the question- exactly why weren't we taught the truth?

Probably because we rely so much on trade with Japan - the Japanese are not the only ones keen to whitewash what happened...

Big business cannot afford us to say "Well, I'm not buying that Japanese stuff after what they did during the war."

[SARGE]

even if it only took weeks, there wouldn't be much left to save.[/list]

i was part of a rapid deployment team in the US Marine Corps.. we were deployed within hours of getting the call. the US Navy maintains a constant presence in the South Pacific, as does the Ozzie Navy.. Oz could scramble fighters and be here within a few hours..

but in saying that .. i do not think that NZ will be the target of a mass military invasion..kinda hard to hide a naval flotilla from the spy sats.. more likely to be the target of a few well placed car bombs etc.if anything.( IE: London)

[Ixion]

.... Oz could scramble fighters and be here within a few hours..

..

So long as they attack before 2010 when the long range F111 is decommissioned . The F18-A only has an interdiction range of 290miles. The JSF if it ever arrives, is claimed to have a vapourware range (ferry only?) of 2000km (not miles). So at best dodgy. "I do not say they cannot come, merely that they cannot come by air".

So, as it always has been, it's down to the navy. If we are to spend money, that's where it's best spent. Command of the sea is still our best defence.

[SARGE]

So long as they attack before 2010 when the long range F111 is decommissioned . The F18-A only has an interdiction range of 290miles. The JSF if it ever arrives, is claimed to have a vapourware range (ferry only?) of 2000km (not miles). So at best dodgy. "I do not say they cannot come, merely that they cannot come by air".

So, as it always has been, it's down to the navy. If we are to spend money, that's where it's best spent. Command of the sea is still our best defence.

i think Auntie Helen needs to invest in a few really good Exocet missiles and American Patriot missiles.. station them around the country and at least NZ would be able to get in a few good licks while we wait for help.. otherwise we just surrender and put up a good gurrilla fight till help arrives ( i'm in!)

[Ixion]

i think Auntie Helen needs to invest in a few really good Exocet missiles and American Patriot missiles.. station them around the country and at least NZ would be able to get in a few good licks while we wait for help.. otherwise we just surrender and put up a good gurrilla fight till help arrives ( i'm in!)

If the Senior Service are doing their job, the only invaders to guerilla fight would be paratropps (easy targets) and anyone who manages to swim ashore (exhausted and very wet)

This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall,
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands

Still works. We culd buy a lot of ships for the cost of missiles. And the new ships carry missiles anyway.

[mstriumph]

sorry -when i said this war was thankfully so long ago, i meant that the suffering had become a general memory rather than an individual one .......... certainly didn't mean to imply that the event itself could be forgotten ..... am well aware that "those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them"

I was more interested in the commemoration of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the 'victimisation' of the Japanese.
Nary a mention of the atrocities they committed, the rape of Nanking, the slaughter of civilians in Manilla, the disgusting treatment of prisoners of war.
Doubtless the Merkins had many motivators to use the bomb, but first and foremost it saved 100,000's of lives by avoiding the need to invade Japan. Although, they still didn't surrender after Hiroshima, Hirohito had to unilaterally declare surrender after the Nagasaki bomb.
And, still, the Japanese try to revise history and their part in it. Unlike the Germans, they have never truly aplogised for their actions. Merely expressed "regret".

[SARGE]

If the Senior Service are doing their job, the only invaders to guerilla fight would be paratropps (easy targets) and anyone who manages to swim ashore (exhausted and very wet)

dont think for a moment that paratroops are an easy target.. there is an insertion method called HALO (High Altitude, Low Opening) that can have a soldier on the ground and ready to fight in 60 seconds. bail out at 20,000 feet and go to silk at 3000 feet... ive done several.
also.. Submarine insertions at 1 km offshore / 50 meter depth.. US Navy seals / Marine Recon do this type all the time.. done a few of those also im my career, and with the physical fitness level of todays professional soldier, a 1 km swim is nothing ( also for longer distances, a small underwater "sled" is used with a 20 km range)

Still works. We culd buy a lot of ships for the cost of missiles. And the new ships carry missiles anyway.

good point there Ixion.. picket ships are an effective defense, used since the early days of mechanized warfare.. but with the length of NZ's shoreline.. you would need quite a few more than NZ could afford i think.

[Ixion]

dont think for a moment that paratroops are an easy target.. there is an insertion method called HALO (High Altitude, Low Opening) that can have a soldier on the ground and ready to fight in 60 seconds. bail out at 20,000 feet and go to silk at 3000 feet... ive done several.
also.. Submarine insertions at 1 km offshore / 50 meter depth.. US Navy seals / Marine Recon do this type all the time.. done a few of those also im my career, and with the physical fitness level of todays professional soldier, a 1 km swim is nothing ( also for longer distances, a small underwater "sled" is used with a 20 km range)



good point there Ixion.. picket ships are an effective defense, used since the early days of mechanized warfare.. but with the length of NZ's shoreline.. you would need quite a few more than NZ could afford i think.

Sub insertion OK for spies and bridgehead stuff. But you can't land a complete invasion force that way. And a sub at 50mtr is a vulnerable sub.

Paratroops is much the same. OK to get a few elite troops down, but an army ?

Bear in mind that an invasion of NZ wouldn't be like Iraq. An enraged Kiwi is a nasty beast. Reckon on a reception party of at least half a million. Very angry. The Anglo-Saxon is still the most ruthless killer on Earth. And most Kiwis know how to shoot.

I would not believe for one second that there would be any group in NZ that would support a foreign invader. No welcoming parties here.

[Wolf]

picket ships are an effective defense, used since the early days of mechanized warfare.. but with the length of NZ's shoreline.. you would need quite a few more than NZ could afford i think.

Or faster engines.

One of the things said when we bought the frigates was "PT Boats would've been better" - they're faster, we could buy more of 'em for the same price as the frigates and they're more useful in peace time - rescues and such. Use them to police our territorial and fishing zones.

I think a lot of small, well armed, fast boats would be the best defence for our waters. So they don't have a massive range, so what? The idea is to defend New Zealand, not sail halfway across the world to kill people that the English government doesn't like.

[Lou Girardin]

The Kiwi's made a mess of the German paras in Crete and they were dropped at less than 3000 feet. Plus we were only using SMLE's, BREN's and Bofors.
Once the chute's open you're a clay target.