I need to borrow a trickle charger

[bogan]

Sounds like your charging system is fucked. Until I got to the part where you said the battery gets really hot and it wouldn't turn over, that sounds a bit weird, so more details about those circumstances would be needed for an internet diagnosis.

[Akzle]

battery hot sounds like a short. have battery sitting next to your bike, with jumper leads: ground the ground and put the red to the back of the starter.
good, or na?

The flooding has only just started since a mechanic (not familiar to my bike) turned the fuel tap from PRI (it's normal running position since I first purchased the bike) to ON.....

prime is for priming, ie cold starts. it generally throws fuel ahead of the carbs to fire the cylinder. shoul definitely, definitely, not run on prime.
unless someone has the lines mixed up or the tap is fucked, it should run on "on"
would also explain the flooding thing.

[davereid]

.... bike was off for approx half hour when I tried to start it again, and it hardly turned over once before giving up and just ticking away..... Because the engine was warm managed to push start the bike no problems. Sounded a little flooded but not as bad as the first time.(

After a 20km ride a dead flat battery would still be only partially charged, but I would have expected that a good battery would have obtained enough charge to turn over more than once.

I don't think your charging system is stuffed, as once running you were able to do 20km. If your charing system was not working, the bike would be running on an already flat battery and I dont think you would get that far.

You say the bike "sounds flooded". Normally the smell of petrol helps confirm a diagnosis of flooded, so if you didnt smell petrol there may be another issue.

You also said that the bike was always operated on the PRI fuel tap position, and it has never gone properly since moved to ON.

In the PRI position, the fuel tap is ON, so fuel is always supplied to the carbs.

In the ON position, fuel is only supplied to the carbs when there is manifold vacuum. The idea is that if you park on a slope, and a carb float valve sticks, the carbs will overflow and if your petrol tap is in the PRI position, the entire petrol tap may empty on the ground, but in theON position, only the fuel in the fuel line will drain out.

Its works by having a pipe from the back of the fuel tap, to the inlet manifold. Vacuum formed when the motor is turning over turns the fuel on.

This may be related to your issue. If this pipe has a hole in it, your bike wont provide vacuum, and you will get poor fuel flow - the fuel tap will be only partly on, possibly working under deceleration, and filling the fuel line up, they its emptying under acceleration.

Your motor will also suck air in through this leak, and will run lean. This causes hard starting especially in cold weather.

My suggestions.

Get an auto electrician to put a load test on your battery, if its dodgy get a new one. And check the vacuum line from fuel tap to manifold. Its very cheap pipe and can be relpaced for a few dollars - just take the old one to an auto store and they will have matching line.

[kinger]

Easy David!
You're contributing with the benefit of knowledge........could get reprimanded for that!

[BMWST?]

Had a look, nothing obvious to be seen. Off to the mechanic after the long weekend to be fixed. I think it's gping to be an expensive trip.

if it is any consollation,its only likely to be more expensive if you dont do anything now

[fireball]

The battery has been ruled out as a problem it is holding a full charge.

[Edbear]

The battery has been ruled out as a problem it is holding a full charge.

With the cables and battery heating up like that I think it is definitely a short somewhere. The performance issue does point to carbs and possibly the fuel supply as has been said.

Find the short and get the carbs sorted and you should have a new bike!

Nice to meet you in person, if I can help with anything anytime you have my number.

[kevie]

had a similar problem with my old bike..... hard/failed starting problems, sometimes it started OK other times just clicked like the battery was flat..... I blamed the battery ..... blamed the starter ..... then discovered it was the solenoid playing up ... that got hot, cables got hot, didn't check battery for heating up ..... new solenoid and presto .... solved problem,

If you don't know bikes Id recommend a mechanic..... from experience I have wasted a hell of a lot of time and money trying out things before sorting a problem

[fireball]

Normally would take bike to Haldanes but now that is not possible.... Where is a good place to go? Have had some problems with mechanics before so very careful who gets to fix the bike

[fireball]

Nice to meet you in person, if I can help with anything anytime you have my number.

Was great meeting you too!! Thank you for the advice and help, will let you know the outcome of what is wrong.

[FruitLooPs]

In a similar vein to what Dave is saying, it could well be a bad float valve in the carb (this valve usually closes once the float bowl in the carb is full of fuel - think toilet cistern) causing the bike to flood with fuel overnight, come morning the starter is pushing a piston up against a cylinder full of gas hence no turning over. You can get bike to run that haven't fully hydrolocked but are still filling up with fuel, symptoms for that are bike wooly and won't idle or down low in the revs feels crap because the carb will be flooding the cylinder, as you get up in the revs it would clean out. If you open the oil filler you can have a sniff if it smells like petrol, dump the oil and replace + fix your carb. This is because when the cylinder fills with fuel overnight or whenever, it'll eventually seep past the piston rings and start filling up the crankcase.

If you have a vacuum petcock (which you do since you have prime and on) it should always be set to ON, with the exception of the first time the carbs have been filled with fuel after being drained for servicing (prime is just gravity feeding the carbs gas, if you have a bad float it'll keep on filling).

I believe you can also have a faulty fuel tap that will flow fuel even in the ON position normally requiring a vacuum to open the tap.

If it is hydrolocking, be very careful - the starter alone is unlikely to bend a rod in the engine, but if you fired another cylinder forcing a semi-full cylinder to compress with force it can very easily bend a rod $$$ engine repairs, possibly new crank etc.

My bike has a gravity only fed fuel tap, as do quite a few older bikes - as a habit I *always* turn mine off after a ride, because I've had leaky float valve in the past (and bent rod to prove it lol..)

[fahnkahn]

the battery getting hot could be due to major current draw from starter the current will produce heat so try touching starter/connections to find a hot spot if starter is hot there is the problem if it is the connections clean em up and try again,winter is bad for batteries good for sparkies make sure battery has water however when they start using water they on the way out i am unsure of your bike but it is not uncommon for starter and charging unit to be the same item so could produce two problems if faulty,also if engine is hard cranking will draw fuel in but not enough power at battery to produce good enough spark to fire hence the fuel smell

[fireball]

So got a phone call from bike shop today and the verdict is in.
The problem is the starter motor is totally damaged and unrepairable. They spent yesterday try to track down a second hand motor with no luck. I have no issues with buying a new one but they have to come from Suzuki Japan and the next shipment is not due till August.

Does anyone know where I could track one down? Not sure of the part number, but it's a starter motor for a 2008 VL250 Intruder.

[BuzzardNZ]

Try the local bike wreckers. Failing that, a 250 should be pretty easy to crash start, although it would be kinda embarrassing doing that all the time.

[fireball]

250 should be pretty easy to crash start

It's a pig of a thing to crash start.