Will LAMS kill the 250 bike market?

[Old Steve]

What I probably mean is, "Is a 250 a better bike to learn on, and will people realise that?"

Having done my 6L, 6R and 6 full on a 250, and having done 24,000 km in the process over the last 20 odd months, I feel that the lighter 250 learner bikes are probably the best in terms of handling and manouverability for a newbie. MY Hyosung GV250 works out at about 75 to 80 kW/tonne (20 kW @ 168 kg dry, make that 268 kg with the supposed 100 kg rider on it). Will learners be better served having bikes available with 45 to 50 (or more) kw and dry weights around 180 to 200 kg or so?

[DrunkenMistake]

Short answer, No.

Bikes still need to be restricted to be LAMS approved bikes,
and some people just wont want to go through the effort or some shops will see an opportunity to make some money on it all,
I think that some of the bigger bikes available will go up in price for a few months until people realise the bikes not compliant until said restrictions are in place.

But hey what do I know.

[davereid]

I would be very surprised if LAMS is the end of the 250 market.

I still ride a 50cc moped for practical daily transport, as it suits my needs more than my bigger bikes. My brother has had a full licence for more than 30 years as well, and he chooses to ride a scorpio 200 even though he could choose something else if he wanted.

Small bikes that use a couple of litres of gas per hundy kays, are light to handle and easy on tyres and chains may be even more popular as petrol starts to push the $4 barrier.

[mossy1200]

Question my MT01 at 260 odd kg and 88horsepower(64KW???? thats my best guess sorry)at 1670 cc.Isnt that almost a learner rider power ratio??

[neels]

Tis an interesting question, and will be intersesting to see....

I was looking at the list of approved bikes, and the old XJ550 I had was one of them. To be honest, I think my son would come to less grief on that than having to rev his GSXR250 to 9k to make it do anything, learning to use of a bit of torque seems to me to make more sense than getting in the habit of wringing a bikes neck to get any power out of it.

So if I was bike shopping, I'd flag the 250 and get a reasonably light moderately powered 250-600cc bike, and start life in the real world of motorbikes.

[FJRider]

Question my MT01 at 260 odd kg and 88horsepower(64KW???? thats my best guess sorry)at 1670 cc.Isnt that almost a learner rider power ratio??

Sheer size and weight (not to mention seat height) would deter the keen learner (apart from the "larger" learner) from getting one ...

As has been stated ... the 250 "market" will still be there ... and I would say a majority of learners will still buy one.

Aftermarket performance equipment sales may improve somewhat too ... (especially on the larger cc LAM's models)

[mossy1200]

Im thinking mid sized mid 70s to mid 80s in good condition are going to see a rise in value.

think idd go gs750e(assuming thats on the list)in cafe racer conversion on a learner licence before buying a 250 if i was starting out under this law.

[GrayWolf]

Having watched the 250 market change in the UK with the introduction of the 125cc learner law. The 250 market did change significantly. First casualties were the high performance 250's, they all but dissapeared overnight.
best guess is that some 250's will remain as a popular commuter, learner or 'hack bike'. I would be surprised if we saw any more high power 250's developed. The 400cc jap import market could be the big boomer for sales.

[FJRider]

Im thinking mid sized mid 70s to mid 80s in good condition are going to see a rise in value.

think idd go gs750e(assuming thats on the list)in cafe racer conversion on a learner licence before buying a 250 if i was starting out under this law.

Be carefull ... in such circumstances ... a dyno test check (at YOUR expense) may be ordered if the bikes available horsepower may be "in question" ...

Even the simple addition of aftermarket exaust/air-filter parts may take the bike OVER the LAM's specifications ...

[GrayWolf]

Question my MT01 at 260 odd kg and 88horsepower(64KW???? thats my best guess sorry)at 1670 cc.Isnt that almost a learner rider power ratio??

they almost could be Mossy, the torque produced would be the 'difficult' bit for a learner. I wonder if the 1200 or XR1200 Sporty's would almost make it too?

[mossy1200]

Be carefull ... in such circumstances ... a dyno test check (at YOUR expense) may be ordered if the bikes available horsepower may be "in question" ...

Even the simple addition of aftermarket exaust/air-filter parts may take the bike OVER the LAM's specifications ...

The bottom gs was one i built for under 1k(not road legal but was stock motor with battery and alternator)for extra $600 coulda had cert and lights extra on it.Woulda been more fun than a $1600 250 in my view.no faster extra but i would say these kinda bikes will see a revival in popularity.

[FJRider]

The bottom gs was one i built for under 1k(not road legal but was stock motor with battery and alternator)for extra $600 coulda had cert and lights extra on it.Woulda been more fun than a $1600 250 in my view.no faster extra but i would say these kinda bikes will see a revival in popularity.

Actual horsepower is not the issue ... if a check (at your cost) is asked for ... because it looks more powerful than standard ... is/will be a hassle ...

I see an increase in popularity in the 400cc-500cc twins ...

[davereid]

Be carefull ... in such circumstances ... a dyno test check (at YOUR expense) may be ordered if the bikes available horsepower may be "in question" ...

Even the simple addition of aftermarket exaust/air-filter parts may take the bike OVER the LAM's specifications ...

I can't actually understand the way the NZTA are going about this, except that they follow Oz like lost sheep.

If they say for example the weight limit for something is 3 Tonnes then thats the rule. Take your light diesel vehicle RUC licence for example. They don't publish a list of vehicles that their records say are three tons. They don't write 3T on the label, and they leave it up to the motorist to buy the correct licence for his vehicle, and the police to enforce.

I was surprised that the NZTA choose a power figure measured at the crankshaft, rather than at the wheel. That means they can't measure it. They have to go by the manufacturers supplied data.

NZ has a completely different bike fleet to Oz as we get lots of imports. Even the official NZ importers will snap up unsold stock from another country.

The same bike, in different markets may have different specs etc, so it will be very hard to look at bikes already here and determine if they are the same as the new model, or the one on the aussie list. This is compounded by the NZ habit of 'fiddling" the date of manufacture. Maybe its not so common theses days, but you don't have to go back in time to find a bike made in one year, imported the next, and sold the year after, registered as the year afters model.

The good news is that they intend to put LAMS on the rego label, so if they get it wrong, at least the buyer will have a pretty good defence.

[tigertim20]

What I probably mean is, "Is a 250 a better bike to learn on, and will people realise that?"

Having done my 6L, 6R and 6 full on a 250, and having done 24,000 km in the process over the last 20 odd months, I feel that the lighter 250 learner bikes are probably the best in terms of handling and manouverability for a newbie. MY Hyosung GV250 works out at about 75 to 80 kW/tonne (20 kW @ 168 kg dry, make that 268 kg with the supposed 100 kg rider on it). Will learners be better served having bikes available with 45 to 50 (or more) kw and dry weights around 180 to 200 kg or so?

Make ya fucking mind up, you have asked two totally different questions.
firstly, in regards to the effect on the current 250 prices, yes, I think it will make a difference. A number of bikes on the LAMS list will be far superior to the run of the mill 250's that are currently (legally) available to learners, a better question would be 'to what extent will the LAMS rule affect the 250cc market'.

to answer the second question of 'is a 250 better to learn on' - depends. often I think not. LAMS will give you a few more options of fullsize bikes that are a bit more versatile to learn on. I would rather see a learner on a GT650 doing a dunedin to chch ride than on a GN250, Virago 250 etc etc.

[FJRider]

As usual ... proof of innocence is required ... not of guilt. The burdon of proof of such, is on us ...