Low (dipped) vs high-beam debate

[swbarnett]

Time to get your eyes checked?

My eyes are fine. They were tested in my teens at 10/5* and have not changed since except for a little myopia in my mid 40's. My long-distance vision is still spot-on.
My eyes take longer than most to adjust to changes in light levels and don't like prolonged exposure to bright lights.

If they are behind you there is a little lever on your mirror you can use to dim it.

I do use that. That doesn't help with side mirrors though. Also, when the entire inside of the car is lit up the pupil contracts, making it harder to see anything that's less bright.

I've never heard of anyone going "Sorry Mate, I did see you, your headlight was so bright i couldnt miss it, but I smashed you anyway".

Actually, this does happen. It's well documented. It's callled target-fixation. And even if you don't get hit you've probably increased the likelihood of the affected driver hitting someone else.

Rule #5 - harden the fuck up..

This is not a mental attitude that can be changed by growing a pair. This is a physioliogical reaction that is just part of my physical makeup.


*The lower the number the better the vision.

[iYRe]

My eyes are fine. They were tested in my teens at 10/5* and have not changed since except for a little myopia in my mid 40's. My long-distance vision is still spot-on.
My eyes take longer than most to adjust to changes in light levels and don't like prolonged exposure to bright lights.

And yet, as studies show, the effects of a highbeam in daylight are so negligible as to be irrelevant.

I do use that. That doesn't help with side mirrors though. Also, when the entire inside of the car is lit up the pupil contracts, making it harder to see anything that's less bright.

That is more to do with badly adjusted headlights than it being on fullbeam

If you read up on international forums, you'd find a large number of motorcyclists in the UK and USA now adjust their headlights down to "dip" level and leave them on fullbeam 24/7. they claim it makes very little difference to how _far_ you can see, but it doesnt affect oncoming traffic or cars in front in your lane.

But.. being in NZ we get all upset that the beloved car driver might experience some VERY minor discomfort (if any at all), despite the proven (and anecdotal) fact that a motorcyclist with their light on highbeam in daylight is more visible than one who has it on dip.

I experience it everyday... on my bicycle and on my motorcycle, how I am supposed to keep out of car drivers way, never inconvenience them in any way, follow the road rules as they see them, and yet NEVER experience any "give" from their side. I've had enough.

Actually, this does happen. It's well documented. It's callled target-fixation. And even if you don't get hit you've probably increased the likelihood of the affected driver hitting someone else.

If this is happening from people on motorcycles coming from behind in daylight (because this is what you were talking about initially), then we really have a problem. People are target fixated

This is not a mental attitude that can be changed by growing a pair. This is a physioliogical reaction that is just part of my physical makeup.

Actually, it can. Because your opinion is merely an opinion. Research demonstrates this to be generally true. I admit, it _might_ affect the odd person more than most, but we do not make policy and safety decisions because they might be someone in the world, somewhere who might experience a bit more discomfort than most.


Berries:

I have spoken to someone at MotoNZ (or who was there and has moved on to bigger and better things), and THEY claimed the changing of the law to not allow headlights on full beam only occurred due to an oversight [sic], and that this was never intended. I was told they want to change the law back to allow highbeam and driving lights, or at least driving lights.
A quick perusal of Europe and the USA shows very few places do not allow highbeams in daylight, some have the caveat that "some motorists consider the use of lowbeam to be more considerate". It is only Aus and NZ that specifically state otherwise. And since the research shows the effect to be negligible we dont need to worry about being "considerate" and compromising our safety any more.

[buggerit]

If you read up on international forums, you'd find a large number of motorcyclists in the UK and USA now adjust their headlights down to "dip" level and leave them on fullbeam 24/7. they claim it makes very little difference to how _far_ you can see, but it doesnt affect oncoming traffic or cars in front in your lane.



So they adjust their headlights down to dip level for what reason?
And this doesnot affect highbeam riding at night?

[iYRe]

So they adjust their headlights down to dip level for what reason?
And this doesnot affect highbeam riding at night?

From what I understand its the difference of about 5cm over 100m - but it just appears to give the motorist no excuse to complain

I've never tried it.. just found several discussions on it when looking for replacement headlamp units for my bike.

I'm guessing it probably works better in countries where people are taught that safety is more important than peoples feelings.

[Bassmatt]

If you read up on international forums, you'd find a large number of motorcyclists in the UK and USA now adjust their headlights down to "dip" level and leave them on fullbeam 24/7. they claim it makes very little difference to how _far_ you can see, but it doesnt affect oncoming traffic or cars in front in your lane.
.

If they have adjusted their headlights "down to dip" then they aren't riding around with lights on fullbeam, are they?

[Bassmatt]

From what I understand its the difference of about 5cm over 100m - but it just appears to give the motorist no excuse to complain

I've never tried it.. just found several discussions on it when looking for replacement headlamp units for my bike.

I'm guessing it probably works better in countries where people are taught that safety is more important than peoples feelings.

Yet according to you they adjust thier hibeam down to dip ?

[iYRe]

If they have adjusted their headlights "down to dip" then they aren't riding around with lights on fullbeam, are they?

I dont know about your bike, but on mine, there is a line that the beam cuts. On dip it is a little bit lower than on high beam. As I said, its something like 5cm over 100m. So they adjust the highbeam angle down to where the lowbeam would normally be, and then never turn highbeam off. That is how I understand it anyway.

[bogan]

No, headlights on full has never been under consideration - it would be considered too dangerous - lights should be set at the appropriate angle when on coming traffic is approaching...

Quoted for relevancy.

Do you know if there has been any progress on modulators?

[iYRe]

Quoted for relevancy.

Do you know if there has been any progress on modulators?

Thus why, overseas they adjust the headlight.

Also... irrelevant since studies now show that there is NO danger..

[bogan]

I dont know about your bike, but on mine, there is a line that the beam cuts. On dip it is a little bit lower than on high beam. As I said, its something like 5cm over 100m. So they adjust the highbeam angle down to where the lowbeam would normally be, and then never turn highbeam off. That is how I understand it anyway.

That is quite simply and utterly incorrect, difference between high beam and low beam is over 5cm at 1m. the dip beam is also biased to shine less light towards the side of oncoming cars.

Here's a pic of my headlight on dip


And one of it on full beam.


You can clearly see both the height difference, and beam pattern bias. There is no chance you could adjust the full beam down far enough to avoid dazzling oncoming road users.

[Bassmatt]

I dont know about your bike, but on mine, there is a line that the beam cuts. On dip it is a little bit lower than on high beam. As I said, its something like 5cm over 100m. So they adjust the highbeam angle down to where the lowbeam would normally be, and then never turn highbeam off. That is how I understand it anyway.

My bike has separate hi and lowbeam headlights. If I was to adjust the highbeam side down to dip all I would achieve is having two lights on lowbeam.
You appear to be using the fact that people in other countries adjust their highbeam to dip to justify your riding with your highbeam on high. Your are comparing apples with oranges.

[iYRe]

That is quite simply and utterly incorrect, difference between high beam and low beam is over 5cm at 1m. the dip beam is also biased to shine less light towards the side of oncoming cars.

Here's a pic of my headlight on dip

You can clearly see both the height difference, and beam pattern bias. There is no chance you could adjust the full beam down far enough to avoid dazzling oncoming road users.

I _did_ say "on my bike". Its fairly easy on mine, since I can take the fairing off and loosen the bolts, adjust to where I want, and tighten it.. then use the adjusters to get it right.

IIRC the rules in NZ are 5cm over 3m, but I cant remember exactly. But then, as usual people on this forum are incapable of reading comprehension - I will repeat.. THESE PEOPLE ARE IN THE USA AND EUROPE (generally the UK). I dont care WHAT your bike is/does..

My bike has separate hi and lowbeam headlights. If I was to adjust the highbeam side down to dip all I would achieve is having two lights on lowbeam.
You appear to be using the fact that people in other countries adjust their highbeam to dip to justify your riding with your highbeam on high. Your are comparing apples with oranges.

Partially correct.. your lowbeam is lower wattage than your highbeam (Mine are 55(Low)/60 (high)), and your highbeam _should_ have a different light dispersal pattern.
You'd end up with a brighter light with a _better_ light dispersal pattern

Anyway, I've had enough of being polite and repeatedly trying to explain the obvious.. gonna do some work and try and find someone with common sense to have a discussion with.

[bogan]

I _did_ say "on my bike". Its fairly easy on mine, since I can take the fairing off and loosen the bolts, adjust to where I want, and tighten it.. then use the adjusters to get it right.

IIRC the rules in NZ are 5cm over 3m, but I cant remember exactly. But then, as usual people on this forum are incapable of reading comprehension - I will repeat.. THESE PEOPLE ARE IN THE USA AND EUROPE (generally the UK). I dont care WHAT your bike is/does..

If the difference between high and low beam on your or anyone elses bike is 5cm at 100m, you need a new headlight. The 5 cm over 3m is how far below horizontal the beam cutoff has to be, its not the difference between the dip beams cutoff and the high beams cutoff (which is so gradual in most cases that it cannot be considered a cutoff at all).

So you care more about USA and UK bikes than the rest of the bikes on local roads? that seems a bit strange.

And the worst bit about stupidly adjusting your full beam into a dip is the beam pattern. See the bright spot on the full beam pic which would end up around 20m in front of the bike, adjust the headlight down enough to be a dip beam and that bright spot is going to be more like 5m in front, and having such a bright spot so close is going to effect your night vision sensitivity, and well as leaving less light for the areas that need it. Of all the retarded suggestions around here, that one is very high up there.

[Jantar]

...I've never heard of anyone going "Sorry Mate, I did see you, your headlight was so bright i couldnt miss it, but I smashed you anyway"....

Too bad you don't read more threads on KB about this issue.

I very nearly had a head on with a motorcyclist because of his high beam. It happened under the old rules where a left turning vehicle had to give way to a right turning vehicle, and because of the oncoming motorcyclist's high beam I couldn't see his right indicator blinking. I was turning left and he suddenly cut right across and almost into me. He assumed I would ahve seen his indicator and so given way. He got a hell of a suprise when we stopped and he discovered that he couldn't see his own indicator from the front when his bike was on high beam.

Maybe you need to get someone to ride your own bike towards you with your lights on high and then say it doesn't blind you.

[Jantar]

I posted the previous reply before reading the part about adjusting your high beam downwards. OK that's fine. Just don't try riding rural roadsa t night.