Modern "cafe" racers and stuff.

**Bonez** · 23rd August 2005, 06:02

Came across this French site while doing a bit of research on the W650- http://www.vd-classic.com/EN/access.php?acc=650w# off the shelf stuff for Triumph Truxtons and HD Sporters too.

**James Deuce** · 23rd August 2005, 07:30

Wow! That looks fantastic.

Did you see that there is a Thruxton racing series in Aus?

**Brains** · 23rd August 2005, 10:02

That Kwak is a fantastic looking motorcycle, I can certainly see the appeal in these classic era motorcycles.

**Paul in NZ** · 23rd August 2005, 10:38

Thats a bloody good site all right...

The design ideas are so much in tune with what I personally like with the compact look, nice curves and a careful matching of all the pieces... If I win lotto, a bike or 2 from these guys is on the cards for sure...

It's the 125 but compare this with the std GN?

Or the flat tracker W650. Pipes not quite right but very nice.

Cheers

**Big Dave** · 23rd August 2005, 11:10

As I've said before - I'm cool with anybody riding - But fuck I don't like W650's.
The embodyment of the Japanese rip off. A copy for it's own sake. A GN250 has more street cred - at least it's not trying to be something it isn't.

**Motu** · 23rd August 2005, 11:18

Originally Posted by Big Dave

The embodyment of the Japanese rip off. A copy for it's own sake.

Ahem,cough,cough - shut that door please,or someones going to drive a shit load of examples through.The big four has been built on that whole concept.

**SpankMe** · 23rd August 2005, 11:19

Give me a Japanese copy any day. It's a hell of a lot cheaper than the original classic, and most definitely more reliable.

**James Deuce** · 23rd August 2005, 11:22

Originally Posted by Big Dave

As I've said before - I'm cool with anybody riding - But fuck I don't like W650's.
The embodyment of the Japanese rip off. A copy for it's own sake. A GN250 has more street cred - at least it's not trying to be something it isn't.

Ouch.

At least it's a modern interpretaion of a BSA 650, thereby keeping the genetics of a long missed motorcycling legend alive.

**Paul in NZ** · 23rd August 2005, 11:44

Originally Posted by Big Dave

As I've said before - I'm cool with anybody riding - But fuck I don't like W650's.
The embodyment of the Japanese rip off. A copy for it's own sake. A GN250 has more street cred - at least it's not trying to be something it isn't.

Meh! It's all down to personal taste really... Not that I really care but say what you want about copies Dave... I've been there done that and owned or ridden nearly every 'important' pommie bike you can imagine up to and including a Factory Manx (albeit an early one)

Although a good Velo Thuxton and Vincent have thus far escaped me.... Offers gratefully accepted...

The Japanese have a very different view on design and it shows in some of their products but the reality is, by the 1930's virtually every possible combination of infernal combustion engine had been tried someplace.

If you took you thinking to it's conclusion then the latest triumphs are ripoff copies of the first degree. Laverda were building big, top heavy, overpriced, over hyped triples years ago, the Rocket 3? ha! Just a Henderson 4 with a pot lopped off!

In actual fact the Japanese revolutionised motoring, motorcycling and manufacturing processes and copied bugger all... Are you seriously telling me the Honda 750/4 was a copy? It was a brilliant tour deforce of engineering.

Look at the race bikes they produced... Are you telling me an RG500 is a copy of a square 4 Ariel? Bwahahaha... (oh good lord)

I work for a Japanese company and yes, sometimes they do things beyond my understanding... But.. The W650 is no copy. They looked at a 1970 Bonnie and captured the essence of it (yet totally missing the point of it) but still made a better fist of it that that Bloor thingy... A GSXR1000 is more a real bonnie than that is...

Paul N

BTW - A T140 is NOT a proper bonnie either - Just a copy. I love them, but if you have ever ridden a pre-unit T120R you'd know what I mean ...

ps - If you want originality - Moto Guzzi won more championships with a wider range of engine configurations that anyone else....

**James Deuce** · 23rd August 2005, 11:53

The Kawasaki W1 was a knock off of the BSA A10, another pre-unit Brit. The W650 is a modern reinterpretation of the W1, so it's a copy of a copy. Sort of makes KAwasaki's own I reckon.

**Paul in NZ** · 23rd August 2005, 12:12

Originally Posted by Jim2

The Kawasaki W1 was a knock off of the BSA A10, another pre-unit Brit. The W650 is a modern reinterpretation of the W1, so it's a copy of a copy. Sort of makes KAwasaki's own I reckon.

OK - Time to put my train spotters hat on...

Close young Jim... But not 'quite' right...

The W650 came about when Kawasaki merged with Meguro. Meguro had built a bike called the K1 which was a copy, not of the A10 but of the A7, the 500cc original BSA twin (and a much better bike btw - I had a 1956 A7SS). Meguro had been building bikes since 1909 and knew a good thing when they saw it!

Note that both the BSA A7 and the Norton Dominator were designed to compete with the Triumph Speed twin and both came up with a similar design that addressed the Triumphs weaknesses, a weak crank, excessive mechanical noise, overheating and a tendancy to puke oil. Hence both featured a cast in pushrod tunnel, a single camshaft, stronger crank and better spacing between the pots... However, Triumphs twincam design always had the edge on excitement and thats what the world (ok the states) wanted!

Anyway - back to Kawasaki!

At the time they took over Meguro, Kawasaki were working on other car projects but once that ended, they decided to go for a Police bike contract for the 1964 Olympic games. No time to design a new engine so they played about with the old K1 and the result was the new W1...

If you really want to know all about it...

Go here...

http://www.khi.co.jp/mcycle/museum/w...y/index_e.html

Point is... Did BSA and Norton copy Triumph? Or did they come up with their own spin on what the market wanted with a few improvements...

Not much different to what Kawasaki did really...

**James Deuce** · 23rd August 2005, 12:14

You mean the W1 of course, rather than the W650 which is the recent iteration of that genotype.

**Motu** · 23rd August 2005, 12:15

The W1 was one of the most blatant copies I've ever seen...unless you check out some of the other Japanese bikes of the late 40s and 50s.The W650 only resembles a Pommy bike.The Japanese also had a lot of manufacturing rights from the allies,and rebuilt using western products.Datsun were using BMC plans,and some early Datsun engine parts fit Austin and Morris's from the 70s,the Nissan Patrol was an Austin Gypsy,Toyota were GM and the Landcruiser is Chev Cargo/GMC.Mitsubishi are licenced to make Jeeps,take the red triangles off and you'll never know - thats where the Pajero comes from.On and on,they just just rehash other companies products.

**Paul in NZ** · 23rd August 2005, 12:24

Originally Posted by Motu

The W1 was one of the most blatant copies I've ever seen...unless you check out some of the other Japanese bikes of the late 40s and 50s.The W650 only resembles a Pommy bike.The Japanese also had a lot of manufacturing rights from the allies,and rebuilt using western products.Datsun were using BMC plans,and some early Datsun engine parts fit Austin and Morris's from the 70s,the Nissan Patrol was an Austin Gypsy,Toyota were GM and the Landcruiser is Chev Cargo/GMC.Mitsubishi are licenced to make Jeeps,take the red triangles off and you'll never know - thats where the Pajero comes from.On and on,they just just rehash other companies products.

Exactly - There are fuck all 'clean sheet' orginal designs.

I'll bet a sack full of randy beavers that Mr Bloor and co pulled a shit load of jap multis to bits when deciding on how to build a modern motor... Now is that a copy or just good sense?