Get some of your ACC levy back

[Drew]

With bikes not being as forgiving as cars I would think poor riders would not live long enough to ride poorly for decades. Perhaps you could define your idea of "Poor Riding" ?

Poor. Great situational awareness, but useless bike control.

Great bike control, but useless situational awareness.

Useless at both, but lucky as fuck.

There's no one doing it perfectly. There may not even be 'perfect'. But we should all try and be better.

I just don't think someone should drag in $1800 to follow some squids round and tell them they're fuckin hopeless.

[Gremlin]

With bikes not being as forgiving as cars I would think poor riders would not live long enough to ride poorly for decades. Perhaps you could define your idea of "Poor Riding" ?

It takes many forms, and there are many aspects to riding. As Drew says, situational awareness and bike control are two. Following road rules, advanced skills to improve visibility (both yours, and others of you) are more.

Case in point, caught up to a cruiser (suspect a Harley) in Waipoua Forest on Saturday. Followed him for several kilometres, and he never showed any signs of being aware I was following him (and a mate joined me while following). He certainly never made any attempt to let us pass (accelerated down each straight, and there is bugger all safe passing options in the forest). Lines all over the show, wheels the wrong side of the centre line on right handers. Mis-read corners, bad positioning made reading the corners harder etc. Basically, he could keep the bike upright and sort of get around corners, but that was about as far as his skills went. Literally, luck was on his side, but that's not going to last forever.

I ended up having to keep pulling back from him as I felt an incident was a when not an if, and didn't have any desire to complicate by being near him. Eventually he pulled off at Tane as he seemed to spot some mates (and slowed almost to a stop right in the middle of the first left hander leaving Tane)...

[rastuscat]

I would have to agree with you that going from an off road bike to a big road bike is not an easy transfer as you will be on something that weights 100kg or more which will be much less forgiving of rider error. From a speed perspective though I actually felt safer on the big road bike with its superior stability and braking.

I had learned my riding on road bikes, and took that with me when I did the original Popo qualifying course.

A couple of years later I was still struggling with a couple of things, and happened to be at the Popo College. An instructor there suggested I have a play on a road cone course with the XR, and I resulted in having an epiphany. He gave me about 2 hours of personal instruction, and I learned more in that 2 hours than I had in the previous 2 years. Little bikes take greater skill, IMHO.

Being able to master techniques without having to worry about the weight is the key. Once the technique is nailed, using it on the bigger behemoths was an easy transition. Don't worry, it still ain't easy, but it's do-able.

You can learn heaps of stuff on smaller, lighter bikes, which is why I don't encourage new riders to get in too much of a hurry to trade up.

Of course, there are those that will tell us that having a Gixxer Thou makes it easy to get out of awkward situations. Gotta get one as soon as you can.

Yeah right.

[rastuscat]

It takes many forms, and there are many aspects to riding. As Drew says, situational awareness and bike control are two. Following road rules, advanced skills to improve visibility (both yours, and others of you) are more.

Case in point, caught up to a cruiser (suspect a Harley) in Waipoua Forest on Saturday. Followed him for several kilometres, and he never showed any signs of being aware I was following him (and a mate joined me while following). He certainly never made any attempt to let us pass (accelerated down each straight, and there is bugger all safe passing options in the forest). Lines all over the show, wheels the wrong side of the centre line on right handers. Mis-read corners, bad positioning made reading the corners harder etc. Basically, he could keep the bike upright and sort of get around corners, but that was about as far as his skills went. Literally, luck was on his side, but that's not going to last forever.

Yeah, but if I had 3T'd him he'd have told me all about how long he'd been riding for, and how safe he was, and how he'd never had a crash, and how I should go catch a rapist, and how I should get a real job, and how ...........you get the point.

[Drew]

I had learned my riding on road bikes, and took that with me when I did the original Popo qualifying course.

A couple of years later I was still struggling with a couple of things, and happened to be at the Popo College. An instructor there suggested I have a play on a road cone course with the XR, and I resulted in having an epiphany. He gave me about 2 hours of personal instruction, and I learned more in that 2 hours than I had in the previous 2 years. Little bikes take greater skill, IMHO.

Being able to master techniques without having to worry about the weight is the key. Once the technique is nailed, using it on the bigger behemoths was an easy transition. Don't worry, it still ain't easy, but it's do-able.

You can learn heaps of stuff on smaller, lighter bikes, which is why I don't encourage new riders to get in too much of a hurry to trade up.

Of course, there are those that will tell us that having a Gixxer Thou makes it easy to get out of awkward situations. Gotta get one as soon as you can.

Yeah right.

I've been working at the police college for a few months now. Haven't seen any bike training done at all.

Seen heaps of skid training though. It is not encouraging. Instructor is a funny cunt though, does some mean sideways laps.

[Gremlin]

Yeah, but if I had 3T'd him he'd have told me all about how long he'd been riding for, and how safe he was, and how he'd never had a crash, and how I should go catch a rapist, and how I should get a real job, and how ...........you get the point.

"Lovely story, here's your infringement *insert advice about rider training* have a nice day"

Then again, you probably already do that.

Oh, and coming back from the forest, down the boring straights south of Dargaville, we're pootling through a 50kph section, large group of 30+ cruisers come past. As I ease up to 100 I stay to the left side of the road and they keep passing. Down the road I saw them passing a bus around a left hander with no visibility... lemmings. That got topped though by a car in a ditch near Ruawai. Looked like they'd gone off the road, ditch was quite a drop down and they'd kept going along the ditch... no idea what happened there.

[R650R]

I personally don't ride off road, but the best guys I know on the road are off-roaders too. It teaches bike handling skills par excellence.

When we did the original Popo bike course, we used XR200s to learn the skills, which then transferred to the R1150RT-Ps. Great skill transfer.

Yes, even before I got the DR I used to take all my sportsbikes down gravel roads here and there exploring. Not doing anything special or riding fast but you still end up with the bike moving around under you a little. It takes awhile but you instinctively learn after awhile the feeling of the front end about to wash out and learn the only way to save it is more gas. I think with todays breed of shiney bikes less riders go down gravel roads and learn these skills. On a recent club ride I cringed watching a rider on a shiney cruiser wobbling everywhere sitting on the centre of the gravel berm at stall speed...

[Gremlin]

The bike you think he is riding if its a Harley would impose serious limitations on his cornering ability so apart from a lesson in checking the rear view mirror to allow faster traffic to pass his only other mistake was choice of bike.

eh? So you condone crossing the centre line on right handers, because the bike doesn't have sufficient clearance?

Letting faster traffic pass is not a requirement in this case as he wasn't holding up a line of cars, but simply courteous (ie, I let faster cars pass, as what's the point holding them up?). Riding within the ability of a bike is something I took for granted apparently. I've ridden cruisers (not a Harley, but last was a Honda VTX1800) and I didn't need to cross the centre line at all. The suspension struggled as I was 2up, but I backed off and things flowed better.

On a right hander, I expect the rider to be far enough left that the entire bike and rider (including head) is all within their own lane. Anything else is asking for an unlucky moment...

[GTRMAN]

Your claim is that the majority of bike accidents are caused by the rider but I thought it was by car etc drivers hence the reason why there was such a big protest a few years back over reg going up. The cost of reg should have gone up for car drivers too in all fairness if the statistics are true.

Actually no, the majority of motorcycle accidents are due to rider error, it is when another vehicle is involved that it is generally the "I didn't see you" scenario.

[ajturbo]

Do they teach you how to do this ?

Fark.. thats what i almost did when heading into St. Arnard.....!!!

[thepom]

I did one of the courses and I,ve been riding for many years....still learned good lessons and a good days riding with Duncan Seed...money well spent....

[Muppet]

On the off chance that the trainers are actually getting paid $295 per rider, I'll still sit it out on principle.

Love your avatar but you're a miserable prick. Bet you'd take $295 a throw if it was offered. I've worked alongside those guys and their knowledge and skills are priceless, more training is the key to less accidents unless you prefer a hospital bed or court appearance or both?

[Muppet]

Actually no, the majority of motorcycle accidents are due to rider error, it is when another vehicle is involved that it is generally the "I didn't see you" scenario.

You're right. Insurance companies know it and we know it.

[R650R]

Here's a thought, how about an option where you pay NO ACC levy on registration as long as you have comprehensive medical insurance. Now there's an idea that would save the govt tons of money... but they would lose another avenue of control...

[rastuscat]

If negotiating road cones was seen as being beneficial that would become part of the practical license test I would have thought.

It is.

In what road riding situations has that helped you?

I ride a troll bike up Victoria Street. I see a bloke driving the other way chatting on his cellphone. I snap a u-turn in 5.3 metres, and he's mine.

I drive a troll car up Victoria Street. I see a bloke driving the other way chatting on his cellphone. I keep driving. The guy has learnt that he can get away with it.

That's when the cone work pays off.