Orange Street Triple R on Akaroa Highway? (2 January)

[Ocean1]

I mentioned a blind left hand bend. BIKE magazine put a camera on just such a bend and there were a number of 4WDs, and even a caravan, encroaching on the wrong side of the road exactly at the point where the handbook says the bike should be. Any one of which would probably have been the last thing you ever saw if you followed the manual to the letter. The only appropriate action is to stay somewhat left of the position advised in the Police handbook on a blind bend.

Been years since I read the handbook, and I wasn't riding road bikes when I did, but I seem to recall a general precept that pretty much all of the recommended lines were simply a first cut guide. In other words they're to be modified in line with conditions on every corner you approach.

Which is no different from what most have said: ride to the conditions.

The difference being that the UK police system goes as far as defining what response is recommended for each condition variable. And with the number of variables being rather large that may explain why it takes so long to assimilate.

NZ roads are certainly different, as is our driving culture, and maybe the handbook is less than perfect wrt some recommendations. Dunno. I’ll continue to simply put as much time between me and as many of the multitude of threats I see on the road as I see appropriate.

[blackdog]

...It is easy to fall off too cornering like that as many do on racetracks. So their point about it being safe is very doubtful anyway in my opinion. I would be interested in seeing any comment from Rastus...

...WTF is wrong with admiring good riding skills?

The speed advantage bikes have over cars is significant in bends. Our ability to lean into corners gives us a huge advantage over cagers. Get your lines right and corners are like motorcycling nirvana.

Get a decent bend right and its all good...

BTW. The roadcraft system rocks. We use it. After a while it becomes subconscious. Worth spending the time to learn it.

That awkward moment when you realise you should have kept yer trap shut.

Wicked burn.

[Headbanger]

So you have reservations about some aspect of their training too but still hold them in high regard just the same. So don't put me down because I pick a possible fault with their teaching of fast being safe based on poster 1s claim/impression. If their teaching is in the police training handbook how come the road speed tolerance has been lowered as it would go against IAMs dogma would it not?

Your not helping.

[Headbanger]

But does not the claim made by poster 1 of going fast and safe conflict with your many comments in the Speed Tolerance reduction forum?

Ron Burgundy is going to punch you in the ovaries.

[Gremlin]

I mentioned a blind left hand bend. BIKE magazine put a camera on just such a bend and there were a number of 4WDs, and even a caravan, encroaching on the wrong side of the road exactly at the point where the handbook says the bike should be. Any one of which would probably have been the last thing you ever saw if you followed the manual to the letter. The only appropriate action is to stay somewhat left of the position advised in the Police handbook on a blind bend.

By placing yourself in that position you are in a position to see oncoming road users, other hazards (like a cyclist on your side of the road) and the road (layout, condition) earlier, and also oncoming vehicles see you earlier. It is not expected that you maintain that position, but sacrifice position for safety. You can adjust your line as you are not totally committed to the corner, you've selected your position, speed and gear based on the information available and you're travelling to the conditions.

If their teaching is in the police training handbook how come the road speed tolerance has been lowered as it would go against IAMs dogma would it not?

How would it? Part of being an advanced rider is following the road rules. The tolerance is not in question or in use, as the speed limit is the speed limit. You need to demonstrate use and restraint of the throttle in equal measures as conditions dictate.

[skippa1]

But does not the claim made by poster 1 of going fast and safe conflict with your many comments in the Speed Tolerance reduction forum?

You should know the answer to that, trust your 38 years of experience

[Grubber]

The only time when I would consider fast to be safe would be when overtaking.

Oh my God.....so out on an empty road would be much more dangerous would it, than riding along side a car going the same direction with an oncoming lane to worry about.
Not gonna ride with you any time soon thanks.

[Crasherfromwayback]

The only time when I would consider fast to be safe would be when overtaking.

That's one of THE queerest things I've ever seen here. And man I've seen some queer shit.

[Erelyes]

To jump on the bash Cassina bandwagon here....

the claim made by poster 1 and yourself give the impression some create an impression their teaching will make riders feel bullet proof.
As I said before if this riding school was as good as you claim why is a pass not compulsary to get a licence?

1) Most that take optional driver/rider training of their own volition aren't gonna be the type that think they're bulletproof.
Those who are on the course because their parents / their employer / the Courts require it are another kettle of fish of course.

2) To take your bait and open the can of worms (two cliches in one), To some extent we live in a free society, that includes saying "this is how much training you have to gain the right to drive, but you can do more if you want".

But does not the claim made by poster 1 of going fast and safe conflict with your many comments in the Speed Tolerance reduction forum?

The simple answer to your question is 'Perhaps'. The OP said the rider was fast. Fast is a relative term. Fast compared to what? To your average motorist? The average campervan? The posted speed limit? You're making an assumption about what the OP meant, contrasting assumptions can just as easily be made (and have been).

[rossirep]

come on guys leave him alone ffs..!! he rides a 1982 CB750 at the end of the day so that should show you all he knows bugger all about riding fast or smooth

[SMOKEU]

The only time when I would consider fast to be safe would be when overtaking.

Fast, relative to what?

The speed advantage bikes have over cars is significant in bends. Our ability to lean into corners gives us a huge advantage over cagers. Get your lines right and corners are like motorcycling nirvana.

Yes, if you're comparing a modern sports bike to an ill handling commuter car, van or SUV. Put a well setup Nissan GTR or Mitsubishi Evo with a very good driver up against any bike, and the cars will be able to corner much faster, especially in real world conditions where the roads are rough and littered with debris.

[jasonu]

As I said an opinion from Rastus would be interesting to confirm or deny that safety is not compromised by going fast around bends. I am sure his opinion would settle the debate one way or the other .

Are you saying that because Rastus is a cop then anything he says on this matter is true and correct and everyone should believe it?
No offence Rastus, maybe it is true.

[Grubber]

Yea na. You didnt read it properly again. Didnt say anything about speed limit. My point was the traffic intensity and....oh never mind you wont get it for sure.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

[eelracing]

Yes, if you're comparing a modern sports bike to an ill handling commuter car, van or SUV. Put a well setup Nissan GTR or Mitsubishi Evo with a very good driver up against any bike, and the cars will be able to corner much faster, especially in real world conditions where the roads are rough and littered with debris.

Far be it from me to put words in popo's mouth (you'd have to dodge the donuts first)but I think he was more meaning maneuverability in the corner.
But any fool knows cars are faster in corners but still dull-as compared to a cornering/accelerating bike.
Bikes have multiple line choices,just like their riders you can stick to the tried and true or try different shit...enjoy it or stop learning.

[skippa1]

My argument is not that his view should be taken as right or wrong by others but am just saying poster 1s thing about being safe going fast is in conflict with what I interpreted him saying in the speed tolerance thread.

What you really mean is you jumped to a conclusion......one that nobody else did, then suggested that Rastus might back you up, and he didn't

overreact much?