Orange Street Triple R on Akaroa Highway? (2 January)

[Muppet]

Speed mate, you can always get it back on the next one and you don't end up dead.

Well said and I agree.

[Katman]

Shirley you adjust a bit of one to get a better other as conditions or circumstances dictate?

I'm asking which would you sacrifice first - the wide cornering position (which gives maximum visibility throughout the corner but places you in a position of increased risk) or sacrifice a few kilometers an hour throughout the corner to increase your ability to react in time to an unexpected development (all the while maintaining a position that gives you far greater options in the event that avoidance is necessary)?

[george formby]

(all the while maintaining a position that gives you far greater options in the event that avoidance is necessary)?

I would adjust my speed accordingly to achieve the above.

Not sure why the wide line into corners is being vilified. I understand it to be maximising my observation to maximise my reaction time & options should I come across a hazard in a bend. Or more pertinently coming into a bend.

My trip to work is 17 km's of twisties with an 80 kmh speed limit. Reduced from 100 kmh because of accidents......

Every single trip to work will have oncoming traffic crossing the white line, including heavy vehicles, coaches, camper vans & Audis. Often I will come across broken down vehicles, single wheel boat trailers or whatever, taking up half their lane in a corner. The road surface has the whole Smorgasboard of NZ conditions, from the loosest to the smoothest. Most of Auckland has been up here for the last two weeks which makes it really exciting.

My average speed is higher than most of the traffic on the road, might even be considered "fast" compared to other traffic.

But yet. I can do pretty much the whole road at the speed limit without touching the brakes, if I do have to use the brakes it's just that, I slow down or come to a stop if I have to. All because of road position & observation. I do exactly the same thing in the van!

I'm firmly in the maximum observation & appropriate action camp. Staying in the same part of your lane through a corner is not what bikes are built for.

[Ocean1]

If you had to sacrifice a bit of corner speed or cornering position, which would it be?

If your riding at the speed you've decided is OK for the corner and you're on the line you've decided is OK then why the fuck would you be wanting to sacrifice anything.

The fact is there's a correct speed for each line, and having established both approaching any given corner why would you assume anyone would want to change either?

[Katman]

Not sure why the wide line into corners is being vilified.

I'm talking about maintaining a wide line right throughout the corner - not just until a tip in point.

[george formby]

I'm talking about maintaining a wide line right throughout the corner - not just until a tip in point.

Yeah, I don't get that, don't do it & have never come across it as an advanced riding technique.

It's a habit I had to work with my girl friend on, I would be heading for the left of my lane, getting out of Dodge & she would still be out close to the white line in the face of oncoming traffic, right were the wannabes dive across the white line. EEK.
So yeah, apexing, vanishing points, plain old fashioned caution & car v bike contacts were much discussed & the first two practiced to avoid the fourth.
She's good now, always heading away from trouble.

It's been said in this thread that advanced training will give a rider a feeling of being bullet proof. IMHE it's just the opposite, makes you realise how vulnerable you really are.

[AllanB]

Feck what a load of ..........

Somewhere sometime decades ago when I started riding I was told/read to always look well ahead through the corner and be aware of intersections, gravel, etc etc - do they not teach this basic shit from day dot anymore?

Funny note - on that stretch of road you will often see a lot of knee-down antics at very moderate speeds requiring nothing of the sort. Gives me a giggle. Especially if I'm sitting upright and running up their arse mid corner! Maybe I'm just too lazy to move off the seat unless hammering it ........

Mind you, you also see some serious speed by some riders. And my big bug-bear - motorcycles passing on blind corners. Fuck that shit.

Oh add to your rising skills this: before you do that late pre-corner passing manoeuvre consider this - will you make it if another rider is doing the same at speed coming the other way?

[Gremlin]

If you had to sacrifice a bit of corner speed or cornering position, which would it be?

Difficult question to answer without context. There is no riding by rote, you have a set of skills and apply them to every situation.

Technically speaking, you shouldn't need to sacrifice any speed from your current, if you have assessed the corner/situation/whatever, and I'd expect to sacrifice position on any corner should circumstances dictate (and it happens often).

IAM isn't about maintaining a wide line throughout every corner, however, there will be situations where it applies, ie, two lefts or rights in a row. The wide line is maintained for observation (subject to safety as always) until the exit of the corner is established (vanishing point).

[rastuscat]

I have kept up with this thread, as Muppet is known to me. I try to ride proper lines at all times, just coz it keeps me thinking.

Today I was riding in 30 to 40 knots of sidewind, and trying to maintain a decent line was bloody near impossible.

Like, you set yourself up for a left hander by meandering over to the right, and then the wind blows you all the way back to the LHS of the lane.

Bugger. Must remember not to rely too much on the Hendon thingy, especially when survival depends on keeping a very large safety margin.

[george formby]

I have kept up with this thread, as Muppet is known to me. I try to ride proper lines at all times, just coz it keeps me thinking.

Today I was riding in 30 to 40 knots of sidewind, and trying to maintain a decent line was bloody near impossible.

Like, you set yourself up for a left hander by meandering over to the right, and then the wind blows you all the way back to the LHS of the lane.

Bugger. Must remember not to rely too much on the Hendon thingy, especially when survival depends on keeping a very large safety margin.

I was on a road t'other day which tied me in knots for a whole host of reasons. Ended up just being a nana & riding a few metres at a time. T'was challenging to say the least.

The further you lean the less the wind affects you. Standing the bike up for the next corner is where it gets ya.

[jasonu]

The fact from what you have said is you thought he was going to crash with you on the back and it may just be sheer luck rather than his "Expertise" he didn't.
I dont know about other riders but whenever I have carried a pillion I have always been more cautious than when I am on my own. This guy obviously wasnt
based on what you have said.

From what I have read here I sure as shit would not want to ride pillion with you.

[raftn]

I agree they think they are faster and safer riders than anyone else. There is a side of me that would be keen to take up their challenge of doing a course but I would not do it for the simple reason that i would never feel any safer on the road even if I got a 100% pass and as another poster correctly points out it would create a an overconfident sense in ability which maybe some graduates of the school may have after passing.

The supporters of IAMS on here have failed in my opinion to sell any benefit of it over what is taught in the road code. A rider group that they could possibly interest
is the mid life crisis biker who has not ridden for 20-30 years to assess where they are at in riding ability and how to regain the lost skills they had.

Another problem with their training methods from what some of them have said is their teaching methods are not simple based on the comment one of them made
which could be a turn off for many. I find their comment about continuous improvement hard to understand like do they really ride to work "Better" each day than the day before?????

Your ignorance, stupidity, and attitude to a proven system of advanced road craft is impressive.

[GTRMAN]

I'm talking about maintaining a wide line right throughout the corner - not just until a tip in point.

This would be an excellent question to discuss with your observer.

[Madness]

BTW I have toured on an XL500 in side winds and your heavy BMW would be a piece of cake in comparison.

I'd have thought the complete opposite myself, fully-faired bikes can be an absolute bastard in gusty cross-winds. Big wide bars, an upright position and no fairings on an XL500 would be a piece of cake, in fact what could be better?

[Muppet]

The fact from what you have said is you thought he was going to crash with you on the back and it may just be sheer luck rather than his "Expertise" he didn't.
I dont know about other riders but whenever I have carried a pillion I have always been more cautious than when I am on my own. This guy obviously wasnt
based on what you have said.

There was no luck in his riding. He was able to go around corners faster and smoother than I could simply because his position on the road was better. You weren't there I was.