Optimistic sellers

**RDJ** · 15th December 2015, 19:05

The plural of anecdote is not data, but with two crashes in 30+ years, the one where I had Vanson armor in the mesh jacket and Olympia reinforced gloves/gauntlets when rear-ended at a red light, I literally got up and walked away from... Whereas the low-speed low-side I had wearing minimal gear when someone did an unsignalled right-turn in front of me at an intersection, I was still able to stand up afterwards, but required a whole lot more dressings for weeks. These were both low-speed incidents but I doubt the results would be substantially different if I came off going faster.

**Ocean1** · 15th December 2015, 19:11

Originally Posted by RDJ

I have always thought that quality textile gear is as good as leather, and better when wet, in terms of protection. Unless I am misunderstanding the results of leather and textile gear being tested? Would be grateful if you can post appropriate links. Generally I ride in leather in summer, when it tends to stay dry, and textile in winter, when it frequently rains (in the lower North Island).

Advantage of both: http://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/moto...nt_prod/207210

Like every synthetic jacket I've ever met they're waterproof for 3-4 years, and that's it. I've given up worrying about that part, having added this to the wardrobe: http://www.provizsports.com/en_nz/ca.../category/133/

Add a perf Alpinestar leather summer jacket and she's duck's nuts all round.

**RDJ** · 15th December 2015, 19:14

Thank you, that is a useful resource.

**Ocean1** · 15th December 2015, 19:18

Originally Posted by RDJ

Thank you, that is a useful resource.

A friend road tested my first Buffalo Endurance. We were both impressed.

I'd already been impressed with it's general quality and utility.

The proviz I've yet to test for waterproof, but it won't have to be very good to make an acceptable shell and it's amazingly VISIBLE in low light.

**F5 Dave** · 15th December 2015, 19:26

Textiles offer a real world advantage that you don't have to stop to put on wet weather gear. Which only counts if they are actually waterproof, and it seems that cost real money and more often.

Cow 1.0 offers some real good advantages in abrasion resistance, but also in rigidity and slidabilty. This means that the armor iis more likely to stay in place and items less likely to be pulled of in a slide (under gloves apparently make it easy for gloves to slide off, though newer style gloves have better wrist retention).

One day synthetics may make it into racing. Boots have. But we are still waiting for something to be better than a leather race suit.

After I broke my collarbone 6 years I invested in some rather heavy expensive Forcefield complete set of armour that needed suit mods to fit in my leathers they were so thick compared to the MX armour I had before.

I still broke my collarbone and 5 ribs to boot. Who really knows if it would have been worse, accidents are such an uncontrolled experiment even on the racetrack, but I have walked away from a few.

**husaberg** · 15th December 2015, 19:27

Originally Posted by Grumph

Nah, armour that supported the shoulder may have helped.
Some years back a guy appeared here with a Kevlar suit of race "leathers" It immediately got dubbed the stretch and gro suit - for obvious reasons...
It was approved on a trial basis here - it was OK for AMA competition at the time from memory and a family member in the US had sourced it for him.
Use showed the one major fault - and for racing it's a biggie - when it hit the ground it "grabbed". Leather slides which is much less harmful. I'd think that Kevlar gloves would certainly have to have the metal/plastic inserts to allow them to slide on contact. Never seen another one like it anyway.
Probably a blind alley as far as the outer cover of a race suit goes anyway.

Maybe, some of those military flack jackets for have the panels above the shoulder they work by dispersing the impact as well as multiple layers.
Yes Kevlar does grab, but I suggested for under gloves.....
Petty sure if someone wanted to they could blend it with a cordura style fabric like the kart suits. But there's the rub though, racers would likely still use leather because that's what they trust.
Kevlar is much lighter than leather too. most of the anti cut gloves have steel strands in them as well. I just thought they were amazing for what was a $10 glove.
Leather does have amazing properties and they are still making cows, as you would have noticed around you they are actually making more of them every day.
From memory out of those test PB done kangaroo leather was the toughest and strongest leather on a weight basis.

**Kickaha** · 15th December 2015, 19:35

Originally Posted by Grumph

Some years back a guy appeared here with a Kevlar suit of race "leathers" It immediately got dubbed the stretch and gro suit - for obvious reasons...
It was approved on a trial basis here - it was OK for AMA competition at the time from memory and a family member in the US had sourced it for him.
Use showed the one major fault - and for racing it's a biggie - when it hit the ground it "grabbed". Leather slides which is much less harmful. .

They were quite often used in Sidecar racing in the UK and maybe Europe but they aren't able to use them for the Isle of Man, there's been a couple in use here with Sidecar guys

**RDJ** · 15th December 2015, 20:01

FWIW the nastier crash involved leather long gloves, a leather jacket, and kevlar jeans. Most of the damage was to the wrist which were it not for the gloves, would have been really catastrophic. Major bruising to the torso, and a couple of rib fractures, but otherwise no skin loss. I don't think the jeans had that much to cope with. But basically, without good gear (and most of all, without a good full-face Shoei helmet which was written off after the crash. obviously) I would have been in for serious hospital and surgical time.

Overall, I probably still prefer leather, but - especially at my age (and waist size) - leather trousers are just not a likely solution. A Rev-It textile jacket alternating with an H-D textile jacket with armour, and Draggin' jeans, plus Icon gauntlets, Sidi boots, and (currently) a Shoei Multitec, are what I will be relying on this summer.

**pritch** · 15th December 2015, 21:39

Originally Posted by husaberg

From memory out of those test PB done kangaroo leather was the toughest and strongest leather on a weight basis.

The GP rider's suits are made of kangaroo skin, half the thickness for the same shear strength as cowhide IIRC. Their suits fit much snugger than the leather gear normally available to us but the thinner material must offer less impact protection.

I have a couple of pairs of kangaroo skin gloves but I'd prefer not to do a palm plant at speed in them by way of testing.

**husaberg** · 15th December 2015, 21:45

Originally Posted by pritch

The GP rider's suits are made of kangaroo skin, half the thickness for the same shear strength as cowhide IIRC. Their suits fit much snugger than the leather gear normally available to us but the thinner material must offer less impact protection.

I have a couple of pairs of kangaroo skin gloves but I'd prefer not to do a palm plant at speed in them by way of testing.

I think the biggest problem was the hides have a lot of flaws from fighting damage and from gunshots.
Its a shame possums aren't as useful.
I still remember the first time I tried a pair of top of the line Diadora race gloves I couldn't believe how thin they were.
Last time I crashed I wasn't wearing gloves (as I was just going down the road a bit trying out some jetting) turns out it wasn't a flash idea as my right pinky is now 1/2 "shorter than it outa be.

**F5 Dave** · 15th December 2015, 21:52

Anyway let's not ruin this thread with Atgatt

Here's another SR, but worse

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/moto...-996204289.htm

**Racing Dave** · 16th December 2015, 03:07

Originally Posted by F5 Dave

Here's another SR, but worse

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/moto...-996204289.htm

It's that damned decimal point, again. It keeps appearing in the asking price just one place too far to the right.

At least this bike's saving grace is the filter on the crankcase breather...