Optimistic sellers

**HenryDorsetCase** · 30th July 2018, 10:54

Originally Posted by Voltaire

Its more to do with the numbers made and nostalgia than engineering.

I've just finished reading Edward Turners Biography, he was the Manager of Triumph from the 30's to the late 60's.
He went to Japan in 1960 and was blown away by the air conditioned factory's, modern assembly methods, extremely high standards and build.
His comment was there will probably be no British motorcycle industry in 25 years.
He went to Honda, Suzuki and Yamaha.They relied on the fact that the Japanese only made at the time under 500 cc bikes so not a threat.

What was interesting is that he was a skilled engineer both on paper and on the shop floor and test rode bikes at random.
He also designed a square 4 engine that turned up later as a Suzuki layout as well as the Speed Twin that led to the Bonneville.

is it this one? I could totally add to the pile of books beside the bed..... https://www.bookdepository.com/Edwar.../9781787110502

**pritch** · 30th July 2018, 11:34

Originally Posted by Banditbandit

And because a rebuilt one goes for stupid money ..

$29,500 ... asking ..

Now that looks lovely, but things like that are better in my memory than in my garage.

**Voltaire** · 30th July 2018, 12:31

Originally Posted by jellywrestler

and then they added a cylinder to that to become the trident and then they added a cylinder to that that was the quadrant.
from 1938 they didn't pick up a clean sheet of paper to design a new model, just altered the old prewar one a bit more.

Other than the 350/500 unit construction which was a new design and that not the 650 led to the Trident 3x 250cc and the less than successful but in retrospect quite cool scooter the Tigress.
The Brits didn't really come off to well post war, owed lots to the Americans and missed out on the Marshall Plan.
The Norton Commando was a stop gap measure using an enlarged 500 and amazingly went on to sell over 50 000 units, not bad for a company on the bones of its arse before closing in the mid to late 70's
Triumph lurched thru the 70's with a very outdated pre war design.
BSA went bust
Most of the others closed shop earlier than that.

**F5 Dave** · 30th July 2018, 13:07

Originally Posted by jellywrestler

and then they added a cylinder to that to become the trident and then they added a cylinder to that that was the quadrant.
from 1938 they didn't pick up a clean sheet of paper to design a new model, just altered the old prewar one a bit more.

You raise an interesting point. Maybe their stationary budget didn't allow for that sort of extravagance.

**jellywrestler** · 30th July 2018, 13:09

Originally Posted by Laava

Still working for HD?

maybe but roadwhales do nothing for me

**F5 Dave** · 30th July 2018, 13:16

Originally Posted by Voltaire

Other than the 350/500 unit construction which was a new design and that not the 650 led to the Trident 3x 250cc and the less than successful but in retrospect quite cool scooter the Tigress.
The Brits didn't really come off to well post war, owed lots to the Americans and missed out on the Marshall Plan.
The Norton Commando was a stop gap measure using an enlarged 500 and amazingly went on to sell over 50 000 units, not bad for a company on the bones of its arse before closing in the mid to late 70's
Triumph lurched thru the 70's with a very outdated pre war design.
BSA went bust
Most of the others closed shop earlier than that.

They had to export their way out of debt and their shit box cars were largely unsuitable for the Mercan market. The entrenchment of that predicament closed the door on significant reinvestment. It's also the mindset of the Poms to think of themselves as superior. Thus many young men have lost their lives walking into battle wearing red coats with a Shoot me here white target painted on them or some such blunder.

**F5 Dave** · 30th July 2018, 13:34

So I was doing some quick thinking on the inside of my head. Maybe with hindsight, at the end of the war Britain could have declared war on the US claiming they had their nuclear weapons readying in, well, lets say Northern Ireland. I think you can see where I'm going with this.

Oh Begorrah I'll be cast into the pits of Palmerston North for that.

**Paul in NZ** · 30th July 2018, 13:55

Originally Posted by F5 Dave

You raise an interesting point. Maybe their stationary budget didn't allow for that sort of extravagance.

Well that's not quite true....

Triumph were owned by BSA in the 50's and new designs were tried but didn't really hit the spot. Real 'almost' bikes...

Tiger cubs/terrier spawned the C15 etc. But they all had more issues than Life magazine really...
Sunbeam tried to make a british BMW in the S7/S8
Ariel followed their own star into 2 strokes and small bikes... and eventual death
AMC insisted on building their own 2 stroke when the Villiers one was better (that's not saying much)
Norton designed and nearly built a DOHC 4 but it was cheaper to get a extra 1/4 bhp out of the old Manx
BSA built a modern 250 racer but the board insisted it had to win on its first outing - no one could promise that so they cut it up.

The small makers really showed the way Metisse and CCM later on but again they all had issues

The real issue was the brits spent money on stupid shit people 'said' they wanted and were so slow making it that it was an epic fail. (bathtub enclosures and scooters) then when they DID change stuff it was the wrong stuff... The OIF frame move being a classic. There was really nothing wrong with how a 1970 T120R looked - the problem was the 1938 engine... The trident 'could' have been a step up but they made it look hideous by hiring in a design agency rather that fixing the engineering...

**Grumph** · 30th July 2018, 14:17

And they're still making stupid shit. Has anyone else looked at pics of the new CCM range and thought Fuck, all hipsters must die ?

**jasonu** · 30th July 2018, 14:27

Originally Posted by jellywrestler

from 1938 they didn't pick up a clean sheet of paper to design a new model, just altered the old prewar one a bit more.

Hardly Doodleson have been doing that since forever.

**Woodman** · 30th July 2018, 14:57

Originally Posted by Grumph

And they're still making stupid shit. Has anyone else looked at pics of the new CCM range and thought Fuck, all hipsters must die ?

Had to google them. 18,000 pounds, but each one has a part off a real Spitfire.

**pritch** · 30th July 2018, 16:18

Originally Posted by Woodman

Had to google them. 18,000 pounds, but each one has a part off a real Spitfire.

Shit oh dear! They used to make MotoX bikes, that thing is horrible.

**Grumph** · 30th July 2018, 17:06

Originally Posted by Woodman

Had to google them. 18,000 pounds, but each one has a part off a real Spitfire.

I know where there's a dumped Triumph Spitfire if you want Spitfire parts...They've actually based a four or five bike range around that POS.
I really can't decide which one is the worst.

**Voltaire** · 30th July 2018, 17:31

Originally Posted by Grumph

I know where there's a dumped Triumph Spitfire if you want Spitfire parts...They've actually based a four or five bike range around that POS.
I really can't decide which one is the worst.

Triumph Spitfire....Mr Michell would have been turning over in his grave with that name/car combo.

Its like the Chev Impala, Elephant would have been a better name.