The clutch. Who uses it?

[bogan]

You got a better way to do it fucker?!

Yup, avoid using the rear where possible too

[veldthui]

Its a bad habit. Once you get on a big bike you will need to clutch downshifts. Or you will start locking back wheels.

Not if you have a slipper clutch

[nzspokes]

Not if you have a slipper clutch

Then you can spend you spare time replacing clutches.

[nzspokes]

(and the lever generally won't fucken budge if you don't), you are not adversely effecting anything at all.

I would have thought trying to force shifts without the clutch could bend shift forks though. It would take a muppet to do it but I have read about it somewhere.

[Kickaha]

but maybe for newbies there's better stuff to focus on than clutchless shifting?

Yeah, getting their knee down

[BoristheBiter]

Then you can spend you spare time replacing clutches.

You would have to be doing some serious amount of down shifting for that.

I would have thought trying to force shifts without the clutch could bend shift forks though. It would take a muppet to do it but I have read about it somewhere.

You can bend/break anything given enough force.

[pete-blen]

Buy a postie...

[Drew]

Not if you have a slipper clutch

Another uninformed post I'm afraid. A slipper clutch needs to be disengaged, and the lever then released before it does anything at all.

In short (because the last explanation took too fucken long), ya HAVE to use the clutch on down shift to make a slipper clutch do what it does.

Cheers Drew, not arguing too much here but I do understand the mechanics of a non synchro box. Gearbox on most bikes similar to trucks, and yes in principle you're correct. The downside being that repeated poorly performed clutchless upshifting will round the dogs to the point where the box will jump out of gear. Not to mention the potential for a spectacular self destruct sequence that follows from operator ineptitude. Ask an old time dairy tanker driver about the use of the old mystery gear in a 13 spd RR and then ask the mechanic that got to fix the inevitable box-o-bits that the gearbox resembled after it went wrong...

Thos trucks are a different kettle of fish, and I don't know they were 'dog' boxes. I thought just a non syncro equipped version of what cars have/had. You're talking about tonnes of load, and oodles of torque. With a meter long gear selector that takes ages to get to the next gate.

On a bike, it's fuck all weight and torque. Mega quick response to the throttle, and a lever that moves about an inch.

Clutchless upshifts are something we all learn, but maybe for newbies there's better stuff to focus on than clutchless shifting?

I disagree. My daughter seemed to figure out all by herself, that the clutch was a waste of time on the upshift the day I started her riding a manual bike. I was concerned she might not use it on the down shift, but closer look as she rode past she was.

No idea how it got into her head, but it's the right way to do it I think. So WIN.

[BoristheBiter]

I disagree. My daughter seemed to figure out all by herself, that the clutch was a waste of time on the upshift the day I started her riding a manual bike. I was concerned she might not use it on the down shift, but closer look as she rode past she was.

No idea how it got into her head, but it's the right way to do it I think. So WIN.

I first learned to clutch-less shift, up and down, when my hand cramped up riding dirt.
Never had a problem with the gearbox.

[Ocean1]

ya HAVE to use the clutch on down shift to make a slipper clutch do what it does.

The 1125 had a very cute slipper system. It was managed through the main clutch, which was de-sprung by a vacuum diaphragm connected to the intake. Get off the gas and drop it down a couple and the manifold vacuum spiked and the main clutch slipped, crack on again and it hooked up.

Worked flawlessly, except for the time the diaphragm got a pinhole, the intake sucked up clutch fluid. If you ever want cubic shitloads of white smoke feed your machine a bit of brake fluid.

From what I read about the 1290SD it's got a system with some similarities...

[Drew]

The 1125 had a very cute slipper system. It was managed through the main clutch, which was de-sprung by a vacuum diaphragm connected to the intake. Get off the gas and drop it down a couple and the manifold vacuum spiked and the main clutch slipped, crack on again and it hooked up.

Worked flawlessly, except for the time the diaphragm got a pinhole, the intake sucked up clutch fluid. If you ever want cubic shitloads of white smoke feed your machine a bit of brake fluid.

From what I read about the 1290SD it's got a system with some similarities...

Rotax motors in RSV thou had a big diaphragm on the clutch basket itself. Ugly horrible shit system, much like the rest of the bike.

[R650R]

The 750 has only ever had clutch for taking off, over 100 000km now and no issues.
In recent years I've downshifted at times if you unload the torque properly no worries. First time did that by accident throttling off and preloaded lever and explored it from there.
No different to quickshifter on racebike with right technique.
I use clutch up and down on the DR though as its got that big single torque thumping through plus road corrugations battering the whole show.

[pete-blen]

The Rekluse units in the XT660 & TTR250 give yer best of all worlds...
just cut the throttle and the clutch unloads the drive train...

[Jezxa]

PS

The "bang bang bang" I described, can sometimes be heard when dropping into first gear from neutral.

Shit, I did this once by accident. How much damage does it actually do?

[Drew]

Shit, I did this once by accident. How much damage does it actually do?

Not enough to worry about. The hardening is mostly effected by heat, so it takes prolonged slipping/knocking.

It's an early indicator that your chain needs to be tightened when it happens hooking first from neutral a lot.