The clutch. Who uses it?

[SMOKEU]

Call me old and set in my ways but after 51 years/ 38 motorcycles ive never seen any reason to not use the clutch but hey older and open-minded,Why not take the rims off the thing that way you wont have to use the tyres.

I find clutchless upshifts smoother and easier than using the clutch. That's why I usually don't bother using the clutch for shifting up, except from 1st to 2nd gear. It also helps over revving the bike on a race track.

Clutchless upshifts are something we all learn, but maybe for newbies there's better stuff to focus on than clutchless shifting?

Probably.

[AllanB]

It also helps over revving the bike on a race track.

Probably.

Explain - given you throttle off if using the clutch I fail to see how using it on a upshift on the racetrack (or anywhere) will avoid over-revving

[SMOKEU]

Explain - given you throttle off if using the clutch I fail to see how using it on a upshift on the racetrack (or anywhere) will avoid over-revving

It can accidentally be done though when shifting gear as fast as possible. It's just easier to not use the clutch for upshifts.

[pritch]

I find clutchless upshifts smoother and easier than using the clutch.

I've seen magazines articles advising that when carrying a pillion you should change up without the clutch so as to give the passenger a smoother ride.
Then again carrying pillions is probably another thing that shouldn't be too high on a beginner's list of priorities?

[Drew]

Poor man's quick shifter. Load the lever, and wait for the limiter.

[SMOKEU]

I've seen magazines articles advising that when carrying a pillion you should change up without the clutch so as to give the passenger a smoother ride.
Then again carrying pillions is probably another thing that shouldn't be too high on a beginner's list of priorities?

Which is exactly why I've never carried a passenger. I can't even ride my GSXR properly on my own.

[AllanB]

It can accidentally be done though when shifting gear as fast as possible. It's just easier to not use the clutch for upshifts.

Mate - I call bullshit If you want to upshift without the clutch fine but don't post shit like that

[SMOKEU]

Mate - I call bullshit If you want to upshift without the clutch fine but don't post shit like that

Where's the bullshit? If you find it easier to use the clutch all the time, then use it.

[bawked]

I was kinda poking the bear with this thread... I'm a mechanical engineer so kinda know what's going on in a bike gearbox and all.

Dog boxes rely on quick positive engagement, its not like clutchless shifting in a car where if there is an rpm difference you are using the synchro to bring up/slow down the speed of the whole engine... either the dogs line up or they don't... pretty simple.

When you clutchless upshift the engine speed reduces... for a given road speed, a smaller gear reduction means the input shaft speed is reduced.... hmm so that means the two are converging?!?! holy shit, that might make it easy for the dogs to mesh or some shit?!?!

With clutchless downshifting the engine speed is reducing whilst the input shaft wants to speed up.... whats the weak link here.... probably your rear tire! But what about my dogs teeth breaking with the huge forces on it!!?!?!! The forces are tiny, the force to spin your tire is near nothing when you are braking into a corner due to weight transfer. Also a well timed rev on a clutchless downshift works... its like magic or something!!

Clutchless upshift because it's fast and you'll be the coolest kid in town, revmatch and use the clutch when going down so you dont upset your bikes balance into the corner!

[tobbera]

I find upshifting without clutch being much smoother. And I'm lazy. So thats what I do.

[unstuck]

Only in the truck, when Im feeling lazy. Only time I dont use the clutch on my bikes, is when I have snapped a lever off. Each to their own I say, your machine, use it how you want.

[Banditbandit]

Clutch cables snap, but I doubt most bikers could manage the run and jump starts required to get out of a busy city these days.

Yeah .. had that happen to me on a Meridan Triumph .. I wrapped the cable around my hand and hauled on it like hell. Lucky the bike was on Christchurch's Port Hills because I rolled it then let the cable go .. bike started and I got home OK - but I had to stall it to stop ..

Soldered up a new cable the next day ...

[onearmedbandit]

40,000+ kms on my gearbox with many many clutchless up and down shifts and no issue with my gearbox whatsoever.

[Katman]

...but I had to stall it to stop ..

Why didn't you just bump it into neutral before coming to a stop?

[Motu]

Dog boxes rely on quick positive engagement

It's the shifting mechanism that makes the quick positive engagement, not the fact that it's a dog box. Trucks have dog boxes, and they are not quick shifting ( but it can be done) . Cars gearboxes are also dog boxes, they just use friction clutches to help match dog speeds. Some trucks also have clutch brakes to match speeds faster.

I don't know what the problem is with clutchless down shifting, I've always found it easier than upshifts - even my slow old BMW does great clutchless downshifts, upshifts can be done, but require some skill and I don't get it right everytime. It's not a flick of the wrist like on a dirtbike.