Hill starts?

[swbarnett]

Read my comment again, I stated CAN be not will be

Then why the "if you're lucky"?

[Big Dog]

you have to also realise it's not just the rider on the roads, sometimes other vehicles may not judge the speed correctly and cut infront, because the waiting vehicle never realised the rider was gunning it

Meaning the differential between the relational speed of yourself and the person who failed to judge your speed is the cause of your stress.

To put that into context: according to NASA if you were at the equator you would be travelling at roughly 1070 kmph relative to the core of the earth due to the rotation of the earth. That speed is unlikely to kill you. Unless it stops or you encounter something travelling at a higher or lower relative speed.

Or more simply: if you leapt with great courage and valour from an aeroplane you would reach you're personal terminal velocity. From memory this is approx 126 kmph. Even in the nude this is unlikely to kill you on its own.
If you're high enough you may freeze to death.
You could hit the ground.
You could hit something else.
Something else hits you.

Until you change your pace you have little fear of harm.
If you stop gradually ( such as a parachute ) you will probably land safely.
If your deceleration ( or acceleration ) exceeds a certain number of gs we are likely to suffer. If we contact something with enough speed differential we will die.

There is no denying speed kills, just ask River Pheonix.

But what you are referring to is speed differential.

In the calamity you describe the cause of the accident is the confluence of two poor decisions. Decisions in that on their own are unlikely to be fatal, together?


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[swbarnett]

There is no denying speed kills,

Um, you've asserted exactly the opposite in the post.

[skippa1]

Read my comment again, I stated CAN be not will be

Peanut brain

Bit touchy aren't you

[PrincessBandit]

When I sat my license (a very long time ago) I was warned before we started I would be failed if I did not use my back brake. I could use the front as well If I wished, but at all lights and the mandatory hill start they had to see me use my foot brake.

Does anyone know if this is still the case?


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Not sure. I don't even remember doing a hill start when I did my license.

Even if using the foot brake is "compulsory" when sitting your license, how many bother to keep to "exam" regulations once they've passed and are out on the road? Hell, I still stick my car in neutral when coming to a stop in various situations and therefore "coast" to a stop - definitely a fail when sitting your drivers license when I did it back in the day. I can't be bothered making sure I'm in first gear when stopping! (yes, I do drive a manual, and yes I did do it the 'proper' way for my test).

[cowpoos]

Any advice on hill starts, I try to avoid them when I can, sometimes I do ok, other times I stall then get it right the 2nd attempt, bloody shamful when a car is behind you.

really?.....okay!....foot on rear brake. as clutch takes up, release rear brake.

[george formby]

Ok "financially safe" then. You had better not ever overtake anything then as you will likely have a head on if you do not take the financial risk of exceeding the speed limit.

You what? Cassina the conservative advocating a touch of throttle? Goodness, might end up going fast. Crivens!

Any hoo, hows the hill starts?

[tbs]

I can't remember the last time I used either brake for a hill start. Same method as driving a manual car. Hold the front brake on until I want to go, then release the brake and grab some revs. I use a few more revs than the average flat start and probably ride the clutch a bit more. I frequently have to do it at the top of a steep street turning left. The road cambers away to the left like crazy, and putting my left foot down could easily result in a fall to the left. It also saves a bunch of time kicking it into gear as if I'm stopped for any length of time I leave it in neutral.
If I'm only stopping for a moment I won't use the brake at all. I just hold the bike in place riding the clutch.

An easy way to practice is to find a suitable hill, ride the clutch a bit with some revs so you start moving, then roll off and pull clutch in, let the bike stop moving forward and start rolling back, then roll back on and release the clutch enough to catch it and creep forward again... Repeat.

I reckon being able to do this is safer than having to use either brake

[cowpoos]

I can't remember the last time I used either brake for a hill start. Same method as driving a manual car. Hold the front brake on until I want to go, then release the brake and grab some revs. I use a few more revs than the average flat start and probably ride the clutch a bit more. I frequently have to do it at the top of a steep street turning left. The road cambers away to the left like crazy, and putting my left foot down could easily result in a fall to the left. It also saves a bunch of time kicking it into gear as if I'm stopped for any length of time I leave it in neutral.
If I'm only stopping for a moment I won't use the brake at all. I just hold the bike in place riding the clutch.

An easy way to practice is to find a suitable hill, ride the clutch a bit with some revs so you start moving, then roll off and pull clutch in, let the bike stop moving forward and start rolling back, then roll back on and release the clutch enough to catch it and creep forward again... Repeat.

I reckon being able to do this is safer than having to use either brake

hmmm...foot rear brake...is the only real way to hill start. Your way works for you....well done. it works...kills your clutch...but works.

Great thing about freedom of speech...everyone can have an opinion....wether they know what they are talking about or not.

TBS...if you don't understand how using your rear brake for hillstarts works [like hand brake for a car hill start]...PM me...I'll get my crayons out and draw you a picture of one of the simplest components of motorcycle riding...scan it for you...and email it to you.



In short...if you don't know what the hell your talking about...keep your opinion to yourself. cool...enjoy your riding and fucked up hill starts

[Big Dog]

Um, you've asserted exactly the opposite in the post.

Perhaps if you don't truncate my sentence?


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[Big Dog]

In short...if you don't know what the hell your talking about...keep your opinion to yourself. cool...enjoy your riding and fucked up hill starts

You do know where we are right?


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[swbarnett]

Perhaps if you don't truncate my sentence?

OK, this is a complete sentence, no? Actually it's two but who's counting?

To put that into context: according to NASA if you were at the equator you would be travelling at roughly 1070 kmph relative to the core of the earth due to the rotation of the earth. That speed is unlikely to kill you.

and this:

Or more simply: if you leapt with great courage and valour from an aeroplane you would reach you're personal terminal velocity. From memory this is approx 126 kmph. Even in the nude this is unlikely to kill you on its own.

and this:

Until you change your pace you have little fear of harm.

All of which assert that speed, in and of itself, can't kill you.

[Zarkov]

Front wheel braking won't hold you on a steep uphill gravel surface, you'll need to use the back brake and do a rear brake start.

Same if you stall it going up a steep gravel grade.

You need to leave it in gear and use the clutch to control the bike and avoid rolling backwards out of control.

[Tazz]

Front wheel braking won't hold you on a steep uphill gravel surface, you'll need to use the back brake and do a rear brake start.

Same if you stall it going up a steep gravel grade.

You need to leave it in gear and use the clutch to control the bike and avoid rolling backwards out of control.

This.

Hardest thing I've found about hill starts is having the luxury/foresight to hill stop in a good spot. Easy as around the burbs and sealed road, not so much when it is unplanned on a steep clay hill with heaps of those annoying little (but fawkin deep) ruts/washouts You're right foot is in big demand when you need it to hold up the bike, kick start it and hold the brake all at the same time.

[tbs]

Cowpoos I do know how to use the rear brake to hill start. I recall now that I did do it a couple of weeks ago on a loan bike with an unfamiliar clutch. Maybe I didn't come across properly, but much like driving a manual car, once you get used to finding the clutch release point and the right amount of throttle, and can do it quickly, then the rear brake becomes pretty superfluous.

Personally I don't like being stopped with my left foot down because in that position I don't have quick use of the shift pedal and I would rather have the bike out of gear with the clutch out when I'm not going anywhere. When it's go time all I have to do is clutch in, into first, release the front brake, roll on and release the clutch enough to start moving forward.... Exactly the same as a flat start. I don't have to muck about putting the bike in gear and then swapping my foot position so I can use the rear brake. It saves time and burns up no more clutch than your method.
Maybe I gave you the impression that I sit there riding the hell out of the clutch, or that I was advising newbies not to use the brake, but that wasn't it. It's just that once you get fluent at it you can dispense with the brake most or all of the time.