Intiminators installed: I'm underwhelmed.

[Robert Taylor]

Wow !

I like your perserverence and your can-do attitude.

You obviously have the smarts to succeed and implement a solution.

Please keep updating.

The harsh reality ( and with all due respect to such admirable perserverance ) is there will be no really satisfactory conclusion without a lot of re-engineering. Any topline suspension manufacturer who are first preoccupied with function before sales would tell you that.
Fundamentally the shims cannot deflect and work like a proper shim stack because the ratio of their o.d to clamping diameter is nonsensical. There will only be some semblance of ''function'' at least in terms of ride height control because you are placing a restricting device at the top of the damping rod, INARGUABLY.
But its ''fortunate'' that many of damper rod forks real problems ( lots of uncontrolled bleed ) are not addressed with the Intiminator ''solution'' otherwise the abrupt bump / long stroke compliance would be even worse.
These are little more than a bandaid and sometimes they will get lucky, but the reality is the real issues are not tackled. And this is more about marketing, hype and perception. Sure theyve got shim stacks but prove to me how the bloody things work when the clamping ratio is so ridiculous ??????

[chopperT]

I pretty much have to agree with you Robert. Having seen the int.s in the flesh the "shimstack" is waaay to thick and too small an OD to deflect meaningfully. The load to create a bending moment at that arm length must be freaking huge. But, hey ho, I own the feckers right now and although I am (now)doubtful of their effectiveness I still want "solve" the issues with this pair. I have an email in to Ricor, So I'll wait to see what they have to say.

[400sm]

I pretty much have to agree with you Robert. Having seen the int.s in the flesh the "shimstack" is waaay to thick and too small an OD to deflect meaningfully. The load to create a bending moment at that arm length must be freaking huge. But, hey ho, I own the feckers right now and although I am (now)doubtful of their effectiveness I still want "solve" the issues with this pair. I have an email in to Ricor, So I'll wait to see what they have to say.

That's the spirit Mate!

[Robert Taylor]

I pretty much have to agree with you Robert. Having seen the int.s in the flesh the "shimstack" is waaay to thick and too small an OD to deflect meaningfully. The load to create a bending moment at that arm length must be freaking huge. But, hey ho, I own the feckers right now and although I am (now)doubtful of their effectiveness I still want "solve" the issues with this pair. I have an email in to Ricor, So I'll wait to see what they have to say.

That will be interesting but I wouldnt expect anything other than a very ''guarded'' answer.

[pritch]

They should have called it a "Rambunctious Feckulator". I'd buy that and I don't even have a KLR.

Gotta share the love... :-)

[pritch]

....how the hell did they ride these things in the Paris Dakar in more or less standard form?

I would be surprised if indeed Honda entered "more or less standard form" bikes in the Dakar. They might have looked standard but were likely built to GP standards.

KTM have recently advertised Dakar replica bikes and from memory the price is handsomely north of NZ$40,000. That price would suggest that apart from the obvious visual aspects of a Dakar bike, there aren't too many parts in common with a standard KTM?

[Robert Taylor]

I would be surprised if indeed Honda entered "more or less standard form" bikes in the Dakar. They might have looked standard but were likely built to GP standards.

KTM have recently advertised Dakar replica bikes and from memory the price is handsomely north of NZ$40,000. That price would suggest that apart from the obvious visual aspects of a Dakar bike, there aren't too many parts in common with a standard KTM?

And Replicas are more that in name. Just look at the Desmodesici for one. The silouhette is approximately the same. And of course the RZ500...

[Underground]

I would be surprised if indeed Honda entered "more or less standard form" bikes in the Dakar. They might have looked standard but were likely built to GP standards.

KTM have recently advertised Dakar replica bikes and from memory the price is handsomely north of NZ$40,000. That price would suggest that apart from the obvious visual aspects of a Dakar bike, there aren't too many parts in common with a standard KTM?

Not much that makes any real difference http://www.nightwings.org/Marathon/M...a-serie-uk.htm
they were a decent bike to start off with.
Back on topic...anyone want a set of intiminators to fit an NX650? fits Transalps (not gauranteed to make any significant difference but at least they are easy to install/remove)

[400sm]

Installed them in my KLR (Gen1)about 4 years ago. Recently added progressive springs and a fork brace.

Brake dive was less, but not that substantial.

The front feels (is) more planted, but the best thing is under hard braking on rough surfaces like those stuttery bits on gravel roads. Way better.

At the end of the day KLRs have a terrible front end for riding fast, sorta like they are on another ride somewhere else, and tend to waggle all over the show. Just get used to it.

Interesting reading about KLR forks being too soft.


If I owned a KLR today, I would try all the 'bush' tricks that were the rage in the late 70's.

1. Put way fatter oil in, and add a bit more than standard.

2. Make up preload spacers for the springs.

3. Put valves in the fork caps and pump air into them.


The beauty about these changes, is they are cheap...and adjustable....and reversible.


However, in today's PC and conformist environment, I am guessing these mods would be frowned upon....

[Kickaha]

However, in today's PC and conformist environment, I am guessing these mods would be frowned upon....

Nothing to do with that, more the fact that they're shit mods which don't really work

[400sm]

Nothing to do with that, more the fact that they're shit mods which don't really work

That's interesting.

These mods definitely made a difference.


Would you care to share your experiences with them...

[Robert Taylor]

Interesting reading about KLR forks being too soft.


If I owned a KLR today, I would try all the 'bush' tricks that were the rage in the late 70's.

1. Put way fatter oil in, and add a bit more than standard.

2. Make up preload spacers for the springs.

3. Put valves in the fork caps and pump air into them.


The beauty about these changes, is they are cheap...and adjustable....and reversible.


However, in today's PC and conformist environment, I am guessing these mods would be frowned upon....

AND STUPID. ( But your call as to the degree of same )

1) ''Fatter oil'' all too often makes the damping action at low speed bleed lethargic / wooden / lazy. Moreover the heavier the viscosity of the oil the more it undesirably thickens as the barometer needle drops. On a frosty day such stone age mentality can make the forks borderline dangerous.

2) Overpreloading soft springs means you end up with too much initial force that exacerbates topping out, affecting rebound speed. And they are still soft springs at lower reaches of stroke. Correctly rated linear wind springs will require much less initial preload meaning less initial force and that makes the forks plusher and more responsive initially. But the added benefit is that because there is a steeper rise in spring force later in the stroke there is much greater chassis pitch control.

3) Theres already air in the forks and the secondary trapped air spring compression ratio can be readily manipulated by changing oil level. Why pre-pressurise the forks adding much more seal friction ( totally unsdesirable and anathema to credible suspension companies) and shortening fork seal life ( which it does ) Moreover if you take the example of pure air spring forks ( no steel coil springs ) they need to have ridiculously long top out springs. This to offset the fact that with air spring only to get the end force you require you as an undesirable by-product end up with rather too much start force, so that has to be counteracted by an opposing ( top out spring ) force. Even then the force curve slope of a well chosen steel coil spring setup cannot be completely emulated. We only have air forks in some current MX bikes for one reason, LOW COST. Irrespective of what the marketing nobs dress it all up as.

Its nothing whatsoever to do with whether you are PC or whatever. Personally I hate PC bullshit, with a vengeance. But, the 70s were 4 flipping decades ago, many of us have moved on and embraced the positive benefits of technology and dont accept mediocrity ( or less ) OR wild claims from manufacturers of throw in damping devices proclaimed as the second coming of Christ

Its well to look behind the marketing facades. This thread exists because of dissatisfaction with a purchase, not living up to the fantastic claims of a land of milk and honey. Its a shame many of these companies arent more readily legally taken to task.

[400sm]

Thanks Bob.

I am sure that KLR fork designs are 40 years old too.

What goes on inside the forks should be of no concern to the rider.
What the rider feels in his bike is what matters.

UNLESS....... the rider is easily intimidated by being told something is theoretically wrong with his suspension setup....

[Woodman]

Interesting reading about KLR forks being too soft.


If I owned a KLR today, I would try all the 'bush' tricks that were the rage in the late 70's.

1. Put way fatter oil in, and add a bit more than standard.

2. Make up preload spacers for the springs.

3. Put valves in the fork caps and pump air into them.


The beauty about these changes, is they are cheap...and adjustable....and reversible.


However, in today's PC and conformist environment, I am guessing these mods would be frowned upon....

yeah,tried a few of those, even put valve springs in there. Didn't work,but fun trying.

FYI, Intimate-manities worked in my opinion. Not an opinion by an engineer, but by the seat of my pants. I am happy. Yes yes emulators probarbly work better

Another thing to remember is that the front end including brake of a gen1 KLR650 is the same as a klr250. Possibly stronger springs, but as flexible as all buggery.

[Robert Taylor]

Thanks Bob.

I am sure that KLR fork designs are 40 years old too.

What goes on inside the forks should be of no concern to the rider.
What the rider feels in his bike is what matters.

UNLESS....... the rider is easily intimidated by being told something is theoretically wrong with his suspension setup....

Trivialising the reality of such mediocrity makes it no less mediocre.

Perhaps you would like to express your discredited opinions directly to the most upper echelons of suspension technology and also to top level riders who get the best out of their suspension because they actually take the trouble to understand how it works. And always wish to improve. This is no less relevant for everyday riders, those that are receptive to understanding more about how everything functions will get more out of their machines.

You may be happy to stay at 1970s levels but that is not for everyone. 40 years or more on there is rather better understanding of suspension dynamics and therefore rather better solutions. But sadly there are also those seeking to make money out of clearly flawed product. And they damn well know that fact.