Intiminators installed: I'm underwhelmed.

[400sm]

Hey, I am in no way endorsing intiminators.
Their description on this thread makes them unworkable.



Now branching onto Motor Racing..........my favourite subject.


Are you, or have you raced successfuly ?

[Robert Taylor]

Hey, I am in no way endorsing intiminators.
Their description on this thread makes them unworkable.



Now branching onto Motor Racing..........my favourite subject.


Are you, or have you raced successfuly ?

No, never raced because I would have been slow or maybe average. And frankly, no desire to do so. But that is no impediment whatsoever in my chosen field because Im pre-occupied with how things work and getting them to work for other people. Rather than diluting such technical focus by forever wanting to race myself

What ''flavour'' of motor racing? Because Im a fan myself, particularly Formula 1 through the 60s and 70s ( Yes that sounds hypocritical given my denigration of your 70s fork fixes! )

[400sm]

The reason I ask is attitudinal.
I suspected from your answers that you may not be an 'actual' racer.
This is important to me, so I can see 'where' you are coming from.

I am a hooligan racer of the highest order! So opinions are strong.

I was a circuit car racer for many decades. Hobby only, unfortunately.
However, I was a successful small fish in a medium sized pond.
The reason being, Car Setup.
In a world where people thought horsepower was the ONLY way to win,
I was playing with shocks and swaybars....with winning results...
So things that go up and down, have been of the utmost importance to me.

Nice to see you have a passion for cars also.

[nzspokes]

I pretty much have to agree with you Robert. Having seen the int.s in the flesh the "shimstack" is waaay to thick and too small an OD to deflect meaningfully. The load to create a bending moment at that arm length must be freaking huge. But, hey ho, I own the feckers right now and although I am (now)doubtful of their effectiveness I still want "solve" the issues with this pair. I have an email in to Ricor, So I'll wait to see what they have to say.

Good on you for giving it a shot. Hope it works for you.

[chopperT]

No surprise but I am still awaiting Ricor's reply. Help me out with the functioning of the RT emulators, they use a primary/low speed orifice, then the secondary/high speed valve opens (spring controlled) as I understand. So what size is the "typical" emulator primary orifice for dirt/ds/klr/dr bikes (very ballpark)?

[pete376403]

Robert, here is another product to consider.

These are specific to bike models, rather than one size fits all.

If I got a set in would you like to have a look at them and pass judgement?

http://www.motocd.com/mc/index.php/s...er-cartridge-2

[Robert Taylor]

No surprise but I am still awaiting Ricor's reply. Help me out with the functioning of the RT emulators, they use a primary/low speed orifice, then the secondary/high speed valve opens (spring controlled) as I understand. So what size is the "typical" emulator primary orifice for dirt/ds/klr/dr bikes (very ballpark)?

These vary a lot according to the size of the Emulator / application. ( Sorry Im not going to pull all the options apart ) The tuning variables include the size of these low speed bleed holes ( sometimes there are two ) the rate of the poppett springs ( 26, 40, 64 and 101 lb inch options ) and the preload on the poppett springs. If you wish to vary the bypass bleed holes the brass construction means you can simply soft solder the existing holes and start again. If you buy the dodgy Thai made copies they are soft alloy with a microscopic anodising that wears off quickly to the soft alloy and quickly deposits chards of metal flakes into your fork bushings. To the best of my knowledge there may be no poppett spring options either.

Unquestionably Race Tech Emulators are still a relatively crude device but at least they have a modicum of credibility by modulating flow and allowing enough flow at abrupt bump velocities. They also recognise that many damper rods have flow restriction, a FACT not even acknowldged by Ricor as part of their flawed and economical with the truth ''just instal them in the forks, easy as that'' marketing. This appeals to self installers who have largely no idea that the real source of many issues are not attended to. SMOKE AND MIRRORS.

Theres also no question about it, deflective shim stacks ( ones that actually work rather than marketing lip service ) do a much more efficient job of modulating flow than a poppett which exposes flow area more abruptly and a lot less progressively

[Robert Taylor]

Robert, here is another product to consider.

These are specific to bike models, rather than one size fits all.

If I got a set in would you like to have a look at them and pass judgement?

http://www.motocd.com/mc/index.php/s...er-cartridge-2

Now you are talking, a proper deflective modulating shim stack and a centralisation lip. Everything the Intiminator could have been and should have been. It still doesnt address that such devices arent positively locked / sealed onto the damper rod but its the best offering thus far.

The one we made with a proper piston and shim stacks screwed into the top of the damper rod but that is not really commercially viable. Also in the centre we had an adjustable by pass bleed adjuster ( like an airscrew in an old carburetor )

Congratultions to Cogent for making something that actually has technical credibility, undoubtedly although they wont be as good as well sorted cartridges these will work very well

[chopperT]

http://www.motocd.com/mc/index.php/l...mper-cartridge

I'm afraid to admit I have a set already ordered.

I'm still going to mess about with the int's however. My approach will be to drill a primary orifice through the centre stub, or maybe install a small grub screw to use like a carb jet. That would make the inevitable changes easier. Obviously the shims need reworking too, perhaps a much lighter stack, with a tapered washer to improve the clamping ratio, though the shim ID is pretty large already, or you could modify the RIV shroud to back up a spring, and forget about shims and use a poppet valve like an emulator. Which kind of sounds like reinventing the wheel....

[Kickaha]

Congratultions to Cogent for making something that actually has technical credibility, undoubtedly although they wont be as good as well sorted cartridges these will work very well

What about the Maxton stuff
http://www.maxtonsuspension.co.uk/files/gp20.htm
Can you do anything similar?

[bushy]

Robert, here is another product to consider.

These are specific to bike models, rather than one size fits all.

If I got a set in would you like to have a look at them and pass judgement?

http://www.motocd.com/mc/index.php/s...er-cartridge-2

I fitted the Cogent Dynamics DDCs along with .60straight springs into my DR recently and I have found the results to be very positive, although haven't given them a major workout yet.

I fitted a 7.5kG rear spring to the old girl and all up I am very happy with the setup. I am no expert but every time I ride the bike I can easily justify the cost.

[Robert Taylor]

http://www.motocd.com/mc/index.php/l...mper-cartridge

I'm afraid to admit I have a set already ordered.

I'm still going to mess about with the int's however. My approach will be to drill a primary orifice through the centre stub, or maybe install a small grub screw to use like a carb jet. That would make the inevitable changes easier. Obviously the shims need reworking too, perhaps a much lighter stack, with a tapered washer to improve the clamping ratio, though the shim ID is pretty large already, or you could modify the RIV shroud to back up a spring, and forget about shims and use a poppet valve like an emulator. Which kind of sounds like reinventing the wheel....

I cant see you being disappointed, for an American company Cogent Dynamics are all about substance and technical excellence rather than the infuriating habit the Yanks have about being loud and full of disingenuous hype.

I might order a set of these myself. They have though marketed these as a straight drop in to appease the ''lets keep it simple'' clients, when there are still very real gains to be had by fixing the tolerancing and poor alignment issues inherent in practically all damper rod forks. But at least they are making a product that centralises to the rod and has shim stacks that actually move and modulate!!!!!

Reading through the blurb its rather telling that Intiminators are only mentioned once with no elaboration. They have been rather more gracious than me by stopping short of explaining the obvious.

Its also of further immense credit to CD that they very clearly stated that these valves of theirs are only available for a very limited range of models that they are specifically developed and exhaustively tested for. Rather than trying to do for everything and doing most of it badly.

Clearly this company is controlled by engineers rather than sales people interested only in maximum sales and profit but ignorant of keeping product to a high standard of function. ( Nor caring as long as they make the sale )

As previously stated this thread exists because of the very real limitations of a product that has been made to sound like it delivers a land of milk and honey.

[NordieBoy]

Hey, I am in no way endorsing intiminators.
Their description on this thread makes them unworkable.

For something that is unworkable, they work surprisingly well.

[Robert Taylor]

What about the Maxton stuff
http://www.maxtonsuspension.co.uk/files/gp20.htm
Can you do anything similar?

I haven't seen a lot of it but Hayden Fitzgerald has bitter memories of it ( If indeed its possible for Hayden to be that way ) He was contracted a few years back to ride an R1 for a British team and was told that they were running Ohlins. When he arrived in the UK it wasn't the good Swedish product at all, it was Ron Maxtons stuff. He struggled with it all season. I think he builds some okay sidecar stuff but the bike stuff is pretty forgettable from what I have evidenced

[Robert Taylor]

For something that is unworkable, they work surprisingly well.

There are many of us that don't accept mediocrity. If you fitted some Race Tech Emulators ( properly fitted ) or these new CD valves it would be like booting out Sue Bradford from your house and then having Elle McPherson move in.

Undeniably these Intiminators are a total engineering balls up, its undefendable. We subjectively tested them against two very strong options with no pre prejudice

The reality is your forks could be made to work properly rather than what you think is okay.