Intiminators installed: I'm underwhelmed.

[Robert Taylor]

At the moment 'm tossing up between a 685 piston or some of these http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Progress...6d4edf&vxp=mtr

We have recently removed some of these out of Harley forks because they didn't work, the customer hated them

[Woodman]

No, but the dynamics of damper rods are essentially similar in so many bikes. And we have a HUGE sampling range as we do this sort of work for a living. Indeed you are in a minority in thinking that what you have got is acceptable. It may be acceptable for you but I for one am not fooled for a moment, nor as it seems are so many others that are less than impressed

I cannot comment on the rear Ricor shocks as I have never seen one. But if we had the opportunity we would adjudge fairly and without pre-prejudice

Chur,

As an aside, how do you approach suspension tuning for a dual purpose bike? where it can be ridden on the road either laden or not, to fast bumpy gravel to riverbeds to really gnarly stuff ridden fast or slow? My front end used to suffer terribly mainly off road when the tank was full to 27 litres to about the 17 litre mark, then be apalling in the last 5 or so litres, but is better now.

Sorry if getting a bit off topic.

[Robert Taylor]

chur,

as an aside, how do you approach suspension tuning for a dual purpose bike? Where it can be ridden on the road either laden or not, to fast bumpy gravel to riverbeds to really gnarly stuff ridden fast or slow? My front end used to suffer terribly mainly off road when the tank was full to 27 litres to about the 17 litre mark, then be apalling in the last 5 or so litres, but is better now.

Sorry if getting a bit off topic.

Briefly, experience and long accumulated knowledge. Plus using components with credible engineering! With many such bikes poor standard springing, preload and oil level calibration is only arguably 40 to 50% of the equation. 50-60% of the issue with such forks is very poor hydraulic control, too little or no low speed compression damping giving poor braking and chassis pitch control. But way way too much high speed compression damping. Intiminators and ( Im sorry ) overly Progressive springs will deliver more initial control but by skinning the cat in a very crude way akin to an ancient tribe engineering something. But what is really intimidating about them ( and those springs ) is that when you have longer stroke fork movements at high velocity the abrupt bump compliance is actually quite bad.

If you re-engineer all of the poor clearancing and alignment issues as detailed in my previous lengthy explanation you will often significantly reduce the amount of uncontrolled bleed. That alone will deliver both more control and composure and allow using a thinner viscosity oil. Which in turn is then less sensitive to atmospheric temperature shift. If you then combine with Emulators that deliver some half decent modicum of speed sensitive damping control you will end up with suspension that is far more forgiving of different loading and surface scenarios.

In the end event damper rod forks and the ''solutions'' offered are still effectively something that would be regarded as top shelf engineering circa 1940s. Cartridges are a much better solution but also there are cartridges and there are cartridges. So much bloody stuff is built by accountants and then hyped up by marketing people with about as much ethic and BS as real estate salesmen. If somethings cheap there are reasons that are less than music to the ears

[chopperT]

I pulled the intiminators out of the forks this morning, and stripped the valves down. Excuse the inch measurements, but hey you measure as it was built.

The packaging calls out the shim spec. as " 4x 0.012, 1x 0.015 "

I have all shims at 0.012" (10 shims total).

9 of the shims have an OD of 0.917", 1 has OD of 0.950".

Only the 0.950" shim completely covers the ID of the rebound check valve which acts as the seat for the shimstack. The ID of the rebound check valve is 0.920", so the smaller shims are leaving an annular gap, which is just a big orifice.

Added to that is the thicknesses are all at 0.012". None of the shims are 0.015". The difference in stiffness between a 0.012" and a 0.015" is significant (thickness cubed).

Somehow these shim packs have gotten all messed up.

I'm going to try to put together the correct shims, and give them another try. And hey if they are still bad then I'll call them junk and buy some Racetech emulators, but I want to see the Ricors work like they should first.

[chopperT]

Wow, I seem to have somehow missed that last page of posts. So in the seemingly likely event that even the reworked ricors turn out to be shite, what would I expect to pay for the RT emulators and a set of straight rate springs to drag the KLR fork into the 21st century?

[Woodman]

Lots of interesting stuff

Cheers for that

[Robert Taylor]

Wow, I seem to have somehow missed that last page of posts. So in the seemingly likely event that even the reworked ricors turn out to be shite, what would I expect to pay for the RT emulators and a set of straight rate springs to drag the KLR fork into the 21st century?

Allow about $550 gst incl and the cost of a toll call to me so that I can elaborate 1 on 1 all of the ''devil in the detail'' points that will maximise the end results

[Robert Taylor]

I pulled the intiminators out of the forks this morning, and stripped the valves down. Excuse the inch measurements, but hey you measure as it was built.

The packaging calls out the shim spec. as " 4x 0.012, 1x 0.015 "

I have all shims at 0.012" (10 shims total).

9 of the shims have an OD of 0.917", 1 has OD of 0.950".

Only the 0.950" shim completely covers the ID of the rebound check valve which acts as the seat for the shimstack. The ID of the rebound check valve is 0.920", so the smaller shims are leaving an annular gap, which is just a big orifice.

Added to that is the thicknesses are all at 0.012". None of the shims are 0.015". The difference in stiffness between a 0.012" and a 0.015" is significant (thickness cubed).

Somehow these shim packs have gotten all messed up.

I'm going to try to put together the correct shims, and give them another try. And hey if they are still bad then I'll call them junk and buy some Racetech emulators, but I want to see the Ricors work like they should first.

You may get some result were you able to instal a small outer diameter clamping washer over the mounting stub but its restricted by the very diameter of the mounting stub which is already larger than a clamping diameter that would allow some credible and responsive shim stack deflection. Not what you want to hear but in my experience with these its really a clean sheet of paper. What we did in effect was to make the ultimate Emulator

[R650R]

Allow about $550 gst incl and the cost of a toll call to me so that I can elaborate 1 on 1 all of the ''devil in the detail'' points that will maximise the end results

About the same for a DR650??? I'm actually ok with the DR's sad suspension as I've never ridden anything better in this class of bike, always had sportsbikes.
Really do trust the stock front end on tarmac (touchwood) but does feel it could do better on occasional big hits off road. I tend to adjust my riding to the abilities of the bike to start with.
Worth doing anything to it?

[Robert Taylor]

About the same for a DR650??? I'm actually ok with the DR's sad suspension as I've never ridden anything better in this class of bike, always had sportsbikes.
Really do trust the stock front end on tarmac (touchwood) but does feel it could do better on occasional big hits off road. I tend to adjust my riding to the abilities of the bike to start with.
Worth doing anything to it?

Yes indeed, bear in mind thats the all up total of the Emulators and springs, add to that installation, machining and ( Ohlins ) oil.

We have done a lot of DR650s and the improvement is huge.

Race Tech also do a ''guts transplant'' complete shaft and piston assembly with a rebound adjuster for the rear shock. The rear end is just as dire, poor hydraulic control ( in both directions ) and for nearly everyone undersprung.

E-mail me to sales@kss.net.nz for a full costing / menu of options, your personal height and weight in your everyday clothes, loading scenarios etc.

These bikes can be made so much better

[R650R]

Yes indeed, bear in mind thats the all up total of the Emulators and springs, add to that installation, machining and ( Ohlins ) oil.

We have done a lot of DR650s and the improvement is huge.

Race Tech also do a ''guts transplant'' complete shaft and piston assembly with a rebound adjuster for the rear shock. The rear end is just as dire, poor hydraulic control ( in both directions ) and for nearly everyone undersprung.

E-mail me to sales@kss.net.nz for a full costing / menu of options, your personal height and weight in your everyday clothes, loading scenarios etc.

These bikes can be made so much better

Cheers. I see procycles in the USA are offering a similar rear shock thing from one of their suppliers too. The rear shock is probably the worst part of the setup alright

[Robert Taylor]

Cheers. I see procycles in the USA are offering a similar rear shock thing from one of their suppliers too. The rear shock is probably the worst part of the setup alright

Both ends are pretty dire. In terms of that guts transplant we offer several direct and indirect advantages, including

1) If you are not quite happy with the settings we are not on the other side of the world, we are readily accessible and backup the product. We dont hide behind the insulation of distance.

2) We plough our profits back into the local economy and gainfully employ local people

[Underground]

Nice plugs Robert, I think its a lucky accident that intiminaters give Africa Twin owners their moneys worth because I don't see it happening on other bikes, I know it's not the ultimate solution but as a quick cheap doityourself fix it worked for me.
And you're damned right about Ricor and comunication.....you'd think they were deaf and mute!
Oh, and my Robert Taylor rebuilt shock left me thinking that the front end deserved more than intiminators....how the hell did they ride these things in the Paris Dakar in more or less standard form?

[Padmei]

I got some feedback when when i questioned ricor shocks themselves about their intimators on klr.net They love them over there & have many many supporters. it all went a bit over my head so I kinda nodded as my eyes glazed over& left it as it was. The initial reason they made intimators for the KLR was that there was one in the workshop at the time so they just used the 1st bike they came across with non- flash suspension.


Now for a serious question. What would be the best front end for a big bike such as a KLR650, AT, or Airhead etc to grab & throw on? I know they conversions with DRZ's, YZs & dirtbike KTMs for but they're a bit lite for a big bohemoth so springs etc need replacing. What would you guys use?

[400sm]

I pulled the intiminators out of the forks this morning, and stripped the valves down. Excuse the inch measurements, but hey you measure as it was built.

The packaging calls out the shim spec. as " 4x 0.012, 1x 0.015 "

I have all shims at 0.012" (10 shims total).

9 of the shims have an OD of 0.917", 1 has OD of 0.950".

Only the 0.950" shim completely covers the ID of the rebound check valve which acts as the seat for the shimstack. The ID of the rebound check valve is 0.920", so the smaller shims are leaving an annular gap, which is just a big orifice.

Added to that is the thicknesses are all at 0.012". None of the shims are 0.015". The difference in stiffness between a 0.012" and a 0.015" is significant (thickness cubed).

Somehow these shim packs have gotten all messed up.

I'm going to try to put together the correct shims, and give them another try. And hey if they are still bad then I'll call them junk and buy some Racetech emulators, but I want to see the Ricors work like they should first.

Wow !

I like your perserverence and your can-do attitude.

You obviously have the smarts to succeed and implement a solution.

Please keep updating.