Market value?

[FJRider]

It's the insurance companies that need to grow up ....

Insurance Companies are not there to provide a public service ... Gratis. They must be seen to make a profit for their owners and shareholders. If you buy full insurance (which you didn't) you sign the forms agreeing to their conditions. You elected to save (by your own admission) the $400 by getting only 3rd party ... and that childish decision bit you in the ass.

Far more experienced riders than yourself buy insurance ... so they wont find themselves in the position you are in.

.. and it's driving more people to pay for insurance they shouldn't need to cover what someone else might do to them (like yourself).

You seem to assume all accidents are the fault of somebody else. Had your accident been your fault .. you would be $10,000 out of pocket.

All because you tried to "save" $400 ..

[Scubbo]

man wish I had 10K to spend on a bike

(pointless addition I know) -- enjoyed the thread btw, 9K back from insurance when you only had 3rd party sounds pretty slick to me could have walked away with nothing had they been able to prove in any way it was your fault (no WoF for example)

[ldcroberts]

You seem to assume all accidents are the fault of somebody else. Had your accident been your fault .. you would be $10,000 out of pocket.

Nah I would just get the bike straightened out and keep riding. I have 3rd party anyway. Even as smashed as it is the insurance company still reckons they'll get $4250 for it as salvage value. One option is to keep my bike and just take $5k and get it fixed but they will still insist on deregistering it so it's a pain to get it back on the road and a ballpark guess for fixing it to "rough and ready legal" state is $2-3k plus another $1k to get it back on the road if I try it that way, so the cash out is the better option - it's just supposed to be enough cash to get a comparable replacement and I'm still trying to get them to come up to that.

[ldcroberts]

See the thing is, take two bikes, both produced in the same factory on the same day, both shipped to NZ in the same container, both assembled by the same guys and put on the same shop floor.
One's still sitting there, the other has been ridden round a little bit to run it in and had the oil changed.

Bang - the ridden one gets smashed. What's it's value? the other bike (it's twin) is still sitting in the shop with $9899 + ORC on it. If you were to purchase either bike (either the run in bike pre-accident or the brand new one) and ride it for 10 years, you would end up with the same bike after 10 years - 1700km is not going to make a difference in the scheme of things. In fact if you bought the one that was run-in you could ride it unrestricted straight away which is probably a bonus. (In contrast you have to pay more to service the other bike plus it has been sitting still for quite a while which is not good for bikes.)

The idea of value based on when it was first registered for the road is fairly arbitrary - both bikes are the same everything except they don't get a number plate bolted on until it needs to go on the road (before that they use dealer plates). They are comparable bikes, one's just been ridden a bit less. Sure resale value on the ridden one might be lower if you didn't know how it had been ridden, but that's unrelated to it's value to the owner who knows how it was ridden.

[discotex]

it's just supposed to be enough cash to get a comparable replacement and I'm still trying to get them to come up to that.

If you're unlucky they will get more "independent" (lower) valuations and withdraw the $9k offer because you are being a dick about a fair offer. They'll definitely withdraw it if you file with Disputes Tribunal but that's the only way you'll get to put your argument to the test.

http://www.justice.govt.nz/tribunals/disputes-tribunal

[Oscar]

Jeez, I tried to read this entire thread, but it put me to sleep.

The fact that OP was uninsured means that the argument has got nothing to do with insurance.

He suffered damage at the hands of another person (who apparently accepted that it was his fault), and is now negotiating with that person's agent (i.e. his insurer) for compensation.
There is no international law or accepted formula covering the value of the compensation, it is simply a matter of argument (and valuations form part of these discussions).
He can either accept what is offered by the other guy, or (assuming that any counter offer is rejected), he can proceed through the courts (including small claims).

[Jantar]

.... Even as smashed as it is the insurance company still reckons they'll get $4250 for it as salvage value. One option is to keep my bike and just take $5k and get it fixed but they will still insist on deregistering it so it's a pain to get it back on the road ....

Hang on a minute. The other driver's insurance company does not own your bike. You have no contract with them so its not up to them to say they will get any salvage from it. As they do not own it they cannot insist on deregistering it either.

[ldcroberts]

Hang on a minute. The other driver's insurance company does not own your bike. You have no contract with them so its not up to them to say they will get any salvage from it. As they do not own it they cannot insist on deregistering it either.

I have to sign a contract to get whatever payout they come up with tho, I actually don't know for sure but the guy I talked to on the phone about it who works for the insurance company seemed pretty sure they would write it off and deregister it no matter what option I took. He may well be mistaken of course. Even so I think I'd want at least $6-7k cash plus keep the damaged bike and it doesn't seem like they are anywhere near that. I can't get an accurate quote to straighten it in auckland - have to send it to hamilton to the experts for that, and it seems too hard really.

[discotex]

Jeez, I tried to read this entire thread, but it put me to sleep.

The fact that OP was uninsured means that the argument has got nothing to do with insurance.

It is only relevant in so far as that he argued with the insurer that his damages should be full RRP + ORC + first service, on the basis that many "full cover" policies have a 6 month "replace with new" clause. As he's uninsured that is a bogus argument.

He suffered damage at the hands of another person (who apparently accepted that it was his fault), and is now negotiating with that person's agent (i.e. his insurer) for compensation.
There is no international law or accepted formula covering the value of the compensation, it is simply a matter of argument (and valuations form part of these discussions).
He can either accept what is offered by the other guy, or (assuming that any counter offer is rejected), he can proceed through the courts (including small claims).

His argument has to have some basis that will stand up in court. "Because I want a new bike value and it's not fair wah wah" just doesn't cut it.

The other party's insurer values the loss at $9k and the OP asked if that was a fair value. Depreciation values the bike at $9156. I've also suggested the OP gets an estimate for an ex-demo model from a dealer - likely to be $9100ish for a $9899 RRP bike.

It's pretty obvious $9k is very close to a fair value but a few hundy more is probably fairer. Not the $10k he's after.

If he goes to Disputes Tribunal he'll lose, but it's his right to try it on.

[ldcroberts]

His argument has to have some basis that will stand up in court. "Because I want a new bike value and it's not fair wah wah" just doesn't cut it.

I've always stated that I paid over $10,500 for the privilege of riding the bike for 4 months (more if you count petrol i suppose), and I can't ride it any more, and that I want $10k back and can accept a $500 loss, but a $1500 loss is not fair (but without the wah wah bit - I guess that was inferred).

Fair value has to be what someone will actually sell it for willingly.

[FJRider]

I have to sign a contract to get whatever payout they come up with tho ....

So ... in the end ... you may have little choice as to what options you have.

Most likely only two options will be available ... take it or leave it.

Straightening and rebuilding it ... will leave it with little resale value ... if word gets out it was written off due to accident damage.

And you WOULD tell them ... right .. ?? Being the fair and honest person you are ...

[Oscar]

I've always stated that I paid over $10,500 for the privilege of riding the bike for 4 months (more if you count petrol i suppose), and I can't ride it any more, and that I want $10k back and can accept a $500 loss, but a $1500 loss is not fair (but without the wah wah bit - I guess that was inferred).

Fair value has to be what someone will actually sell it for willingly.

Seems to me, fair value is a replacement bike of the same age and milage.
What you paid for it is irrelevant.

[FJRider]

I can accept a $500 loss, but a $1500 loss is not fair (but without the wah wah bit - I guess that was inferred).

But you saved $400 by not getting full insurance ... remember ...

You have already lost full use of your bike. Anything you get back (out of it) is a plus ...

Fair value has to be what someone will actually sell it for willingly.

What someone will PAY for it willingly ... actually. I would willingly sell my FJ for ten grand ... but that would not make it the fair market value for it ... (dammit)

[ldcroberts]

Seems to me, fair value is a replacement bike of the same age and milage.
What you paid for it is irrelevant.

that's true, the closest available bike same age and slightly less milage is $9899 + ORC, no other options exist to purchase today nor on the day of the accident (March 24th).

Question is will the disputes tribunal rule on the value of an actual bike you can actually buy, versus the insurance companies mythical bike that if a mythical person was pressured to sell you might be able to get for only 9k

[ldcroberts]

But you saved $400 by not getting full insurance ... remember ...

Nope that only applied for the period from March 17th to March 24th when I dropped it down from full to 3rd party. I didn't save anything believe me.

What someone will PAY for it willingly ... actually. I would willingly sell my FJ for ten grand ... but that would not make it the fair market value for it ... (dammit)

If you had a son/friend, and you bought the bike and ran it in while they were saving up for it, then he bought it off you knowing everything about the bike, where is the fair meeting point that accounts for use/wear and tear/etc. That's probably the clearest way to think about fair market value.