ACC levies to be slashed - hope this includes bikes

[veldthui]

Hi,

As part of the Government's "try and buy back some of the totally pissed-off voters" budget of 2014, it seems there are plans to slash motor vehicle ACC levies from next year.

Pray this includes finally restoring motorcycle ACC levies back to sane levels.

(To be fair, this should be geared to insurance data based on accident statistics for each make and model of bike, rather than those crude categories of 0-50cc, 51-250cc, 251-600cc, 601cc+ which didn't even consider the type of bike at all, or its crash stats.)

Fingers crossed, aye?

Obviously I read a different one to you because the one I read only mentioned cars and no other form of vehicle.

[Katman]

My main objections to the current charges are:

1. Assumption that fault for accidents lies mainly with motorcyclists

The current regime is based on the premise that since motorcyclists have a much higher per capita accident rate, that they should pay more for their ACC coverage. However, this approach fails to acknowledge that for a significant proportion of motorcycle crashes, fault actually lies with other vehicles, namely cars and trucks, involved in these crashes.

You should take a good close look at motorcycle crash stats.

You might be unpleasantly surprised.

[aum108]

Dear Nancy,

Thank you for your prompt response - Do you take it up the Arse?

Thanks
Demon

Dear Demon,

Your social offer is noted. However, Parliamentary Services has established strict policies regarding intimate social communication over Parliamentary computer networks. Therefore, I must ask if you could please take this dialogue private, and send a picture of yourself, your bike, and a time/place in Wellington at which we can meet, to my personal email address: nancy.robbie419@hotmail.com

Regards
Nancy Robbie

Nancy Robbie | ACC Private Secretary
Office of Hon Judith Collins | Minister of Justice | Minister for ACC | Minister of Ethnic Affairs | MP for Papakura

[MrKiwi]

I think your response should be something like this:

Dear Nancy,

Thank you for your prompt response - Do you take it up the Arse?

Thanks
Demon


- You are probably going to get a more truthful response for that question then you will for your actual request

Why take it out on Nancy she's only doing her job, it's straight processing until someone in ACC can draft a reply for the Minister's consideration. It is those two we should be worried about.

[MrKiwi]

Sadly the changes do not affect bikes other than a reduction in petrol prices. Neither has ACC proposed to align the split between less than and over 600c to the LAMS approved 660cc power to weight ratio, which would make more sense in my mind.

Motorcycle levy rates stay the same and the $30 safety levy stays place, while cars get a weighted average 40% reduction based on a risk rating. I discussed with ACC the possibility of risk ratings for bikes with ABS and traction control as overseas data was indicating some good reductions in the rate and seriousness of accidents arising from motorcycle accidents where bikes are fitted with these technologies. Again no real interest.

In the details of the proposals ACC continue to misquote the 22 more times statement by saying motorcyclists are 22 times more likely to be involved in an accident. When will they learn! The 18-22 times more relates to a vulnerability index, not crash rate.

The same old, same old - not good enough really.

[bogan]

Speaking of which, where the fuck are motonz on this (or any other) issue?

[MrKiwi]

Speaking of which, where the fuck are motonz on this (or any other) issue?

Not sure, I'm standing down, June is my last meeting and I did not make the previous one. Initially the Council preferred to comment on ACC levies but current thinking by most is that it is outside their remit. Technically that might be correct, but morally I have my doubts.

The reasons I am standing down are:
- I've done my stint and 3 and 1/2 years later it is time for me to move on. I've tried with some success to influence thinking around basing decisions on a good understand of the data (imperfections and all) and I personally put a lot of effort into the conspicuity work. The development of guidance material for road controlling authorities to have regard to needs of motorcyclists in the design and maintenance of roads is useful, but any benefits are a long time in coming.
- I now work in the new vehicle sector as the Chief Executive of the Motor Industry Association, a lobby group of companies that are the official NZ distributors of new cars, new trucks and new motorbikes. As such I need to take a more active role in lobbying ACC, and at times criticising them, something that was problematic while on the Council.

And finally, the appointment to the Council came at some personal cost in terms of criticism, but I expected that. I deliberately sought views on this forum at various points on the last 3 years. I generally appreciated the frankness of advice, and occasionally shook my head in disbelief at the head in sand arrogance of some members. Everyone is entitled to their views and opinions though.

I will remain a member of this forum, as foremost I am a motorcyclist. Through my work I still get opportunities to lobby and that I will continue to do, just from outside the tent now and not from the inside.

Cheers...

[Kiwi675]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news...cuts-confirmed

Hi,

As part of the Government's "try and buy back some of the totally pissed-off voters" budget of 2014, it seems there are plans to slash motor vehicle ACC levies from next year.

Pray this includes finally restoring motorcycle ACC levies back to sane levels.

(To be fair, this should be geared to insurance data based on accident statistics for each make and model of bike, rather than those crude categories of 0-50cc, 51-250cc, 251-600cc, 601cc+ which didn't even consider the type of bike at all, or its crash stats.)

Fingers crossed, aye?

[R650R]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news...cuts-confirmed

Note the bit about staggered levy based on cars risk factor... So unless your rich and can afford the latest car you prob wont get much off.
So whose funding the treatment cost for a pedestrian run over by the latest audi with seven airbags, oh that's right bikers will pick up the tab.

When a car crashes it often has more than one person inside, up to four plus the victims in the other vehicle they hit. A biker typically only injures himself and pillion at the most.

[davebullet]

TV3 has confirmed a brief item on today's ACC dscrimination protest will air on TV3 news tonight. Keep an eye out.

[blackdog]

TV3 has confirmed a brief item on today's ACC dscrimination protest will air on TV3 news tonight. Keep an eye out.

linky please?

[R650R]

We must have a few lawyers in the ranks... Surely we can use ACC's own propaganda and statements against them.
I think there is a case for Fraud to be answered in that they have said we cost them $$$ in claims due to x,y,z, when x,y,z numbers are not close to what they say.
We'd be screwed if they just said the levy for bikes is x$ you have to pay it. But they've spouted so much crap over the years I'm sure they've digged themselves a statistical hole that a good lawyer would have a field day with.
Now if only someone in 'dirty polotics' could get us inter dept emails... Even under an OIA request I bet there must be some careless ones in there where some hater has said lets screw the bikers over...

[MrKiwi]

We must have a few lawyers in the ranks... Surely we can use ACC's own propaganda and statements against them.
I think there is a case for Fraud to be answered in that they have said we cost them $$$ in claims due to x,y,z, when x,y,z numbers are not close to what they say.
We'd be screwed if they just said the levy for bikes is x$ you have to pay it. But they've spouted so much crap over the years I'm sure they've digged themselves a statistical hole that a good lawyer would have a field day with.
Now if only someone in 'dirty polotics' could get us inter dept emails... Even under an OIA request I bet there must be some careless ones in there where some hater has said lets screw the bikers over...

arguably they have been inconsistent with the stats, but sadly, based on the stats I've seen and analysed, even allowing for the most favourable interpretation for us riders we're still on the wrong side of the ledger with some way to go...

[James Deuce]

arguably they have been inconsistent with the stats, but sadly, based on the stats I've seen and analysed, even allowing for the most favourable interpretation for us riders we're still on the wrong side of the ledger with some way to go...

Those stats are based on the the most lax data collections standards possible and therefore moot. Any improvements made in the last 5 years to data collection only impact on the data collected durin gthat period and comparing it to previously collected data can only be used to demonstrate that the data collection methods have changed or improved. So the sample is still too small to avoid wild swings in apparent issues and the analysis of those issues caused by anomolous events.

Overall road deaths have decreased proportionally with improvements in vehicle safety, not driver training, not road rule changes, and have nothing to do with Policing. Motorcycle stats will only improve measurably for motorcyclists when other road users are required to look for motorcyclists and not use their vehicles as weapons. The only other measurable changes that can be made for motorcyclists to reduce the death and injury rates are roadside furniture changes and changes in attitudes by farmers and other people have the potential to litter the road with deadly objects.

There is little you can do to actively drop death and injury rates for motorcyclists as there is an achieveable level in practical changes. That bar is REALLY low as it relies on people wanting to be part of the solution. They don't. People hate change, particularly if it means acknowledging that their dearly held beliefs are just a crock of shit.

Lots more work needs to go into the intangible and indirect threats. Number one is the bullshit that goes on inside the average motorcyclist's head. Number 2 is the bullshit that goes on inside every other road user's head. Then we can talk about training and hi-vis (doesn't work) and ABS and TCS and practical enforcement changes and making farmers liable for wandering stock and freight companies liable for dropping shit on the road, both of the actual shit variety and the objects of a size large enough to unseat the unwary.

[MrKiwi]

You raise good points...