Cops to apply blanket 5km tolerance to motorcyclists. Permanently?

[Scuba_Steve]

You can also be ticketed for an "excessive display of speed" without breaking the speed limit.

And excessive acceleration without breaking traction.

Yes but both of those have a prerequisite being another breach of legislation must have occurred

[Big Dog]

My understanding is excessive speed, acceleration and braking only need to be "for display"?


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[rastuscat]

Just another point of view.

Speed causes some crashes. Not many, but some.

All the others are caused by something other than speed. Like shitty driving. Like shitty roads. And a few shitty vehicles.

Okay, speed causes a few. However, if we accept that there are a truckload of crashes for a variety of reasons, doesn't it make sense to try to have them happen at slower speeds? Like, it's better to arse off at 50 than at 70.

What are the arguments against that?

[unstuck]

Just another point of view.

Speed causes some crashes. Not many, but some.

All the others are caused by something other than speed. Like shitty driving. Like shitty roads. And a few shitty vehicles.

Okay, speed causes a few. However, if we accept that there are a truckload of crashes for a variety of reasons, doesn't it make sense to try to have them happen at slower speeds? Like, it's better to arse off at 50 than at 70.

What are the arguments against that?

Most of the crashes that I hear about are caused by young fellas that think they can drive like ken block, or the latest drift king. Most of them run out of talent way too early.

[Scuba_Steve]

My understanding is excessive speed, acceleration and braking only need to be "for display"?

(1) A person must not operate a motor vehicle in a race, or in an unnecessary exhibition of speed or acceleration, on a road unless the operation of the vehicle in that manner is authorised by law.
(4) In this section and in section 96(9), the operation of a motor vehicle in a particular manner is authorised by law if,—
(a) in the case of a race or an exhibition of speed or acceleration,—
(i) the speed of the vehicle is within the applicable speed limit or speed limits;
and
(ii) the vehicle operator does not contravene any enactment other than this section that applies in relation to the operation of the vehicle;

Just another point of view.

Speed causes some crashes. Not many, but some.

All the others are caused by something other than speed. Like shitty driving. Like shitty roads. And a few shitty vehicles.

Okay, speed causes a few. However, if we accept that there are a truckload of crashes for a variety of reasons, doesn't it make sense to try to have them happen at slower speeds? Like, it's better to arse off at 50 than at 70.

What are the arguments against that?

1st argument, is that [reputable] studies show the speed scam increases crashes; No crash no death pretty self explanatory there.
2nd argument, above 60km/h that argument becomes moot as humans are only rated to survive crashes at 60km/h & below
3rd argument, it is NEVER safer to look at the speedo rather than the road EVER
Shit happens, driving is dangerous, accept this, allow people to drive safely over legally

[James Deuce]

Just another point of view.

Speed causes some crashes. Not many, but some.

All the others are caused by something other than speed. Like shitty driving. Like shitty roads. And a few shitty vehicles.

Okay, speed causes a few. However, if we accept that there are a truckload of crashes for a variety of reasons, doesn't it make sense to try to have them happen at slower speeds? Like, it's better to arse off at 50 than at 70.

What are the arguments against that?

Increased lifespans are expensive to maintain with such a low retirement age. Better to kill as many commoners as possible, as early as possible. I R A TORY! HEAR ME ROAR. That reminds me of Kay Perry's tits.

What were we talking about again?

[rastuscat]

Most of the crashes that I hear about are caused by young fellas that think they can drive like ken block, or the latest drift king. Most of them run out of talent way too early.

And that's part of the problem. "Most opf the crashes that I hear about..........."

Our views are formed by the information we hear, read, get via whatever source. The media doesn't report the vast majority of crashes, so they fly under the radar.

That leaves us feeling like most crashes are caused by overseas tourists and boy racers, as those are the ones the media focuses on.

Fact is, most crashes are caused by Mr and Mrs Average just making a simple error or two, which might compound on someone elses errors, and bang, damage for Africa.

As long as we believe that most crashes are caused by boy racers and overseas tourists we can forget changing our behaviours. Until we start to understand that as a society, we are the problem, we won't ever start to realise that we have the ability to improve the situation, by just changing our attitudes.

Social theory I know, but it's reality.

[GrayWolf]

And that's part of the problem. "Most opf the crashes that I hear about..........."

Our views are formed by the information we hear, read, get via whatever source. The media doesn't report the vast majority of crashes, so they fly under the radar.

That leaves us feeling like most crashes are caused by overseas tourists and boy racers, as those are the ones the media focuses on.

Fact is, most crashes are caused by Mr and Mrs Average just making a simple error or two, which might compound on someone elses errors, and bang, damage for Africa.

As long as we believe that most crashes are caused by boy racers and overseas tourists we can forget changing our behaviours. Until we start to understand that as a society, we are the problem, we won't ever start to realise that we have the ability to improve the situation, by just changing our attitudes.

Social theory I know, but it's reality.

So taking your argument/theory to a logical conclusion Rastus...
The gubbermint applying laws, and the enforcers (popo) ensuring the general pubic comply, is removing the necessity of said pubic to "change their attitude" and change their behaviours? As it is a 'forced comply' situation, rather than a 'realised and enlightened' one.


So in theory, speeding laws and enforcement are 'self defeating'.
They fail in modifying attitude and behaviour, in fact one could say (especially in the 5kph tolerance bracket) they encourage 'civil resistance'....

[rastuscat]

So in theory, speeding laws and enforcement are 'self defeating'.
:

I hope so. I hope I can go out having a good look for seatbelt offences and not find one.

I hope I can have a good look for cellphone offences and not find one. I hope I can stake out a set of traffic lights and not find anyone running the red. I hope I can stake out a stop sign and every foreign tourist stops.

Do you really think it will happen without people realising that it's them that are the problem? As long as everyone points the finger at everyone else with an expectation that they will change, nothing will.

It happens on here. We bemoan the drivers who drive under the posted limit. We bitch about drivers who cut us off. The only person we all can change is ourselves, individually.

Have I had too many wines?

[GrayWolf]

I hope so. I hope I can go out having a good look for seatbelt offences and not find one.

I hope I can have a good look for cellphone offences and not find one. I hope I can stake out a set of traffic lights and not find anyone running the red. I hope I can stake out a stop sign and every foreign tourist stops.

Do you really think it will happen without people realising that it's them that are the problem? As long as everyone points the finger at everyone else with an expectation that they will change, nothing will.

It happens on here. We bemoan the drivers who drive under the posted limit. We bitch about drivers who cut us off. The only person we all can change is ourselves, individually.

Have I had too many wines?

I guess what I am saying is, Laws dont always change attitude,it may 'force' compliance, but we all at some point have bent, broken and simply completely ignored various statutes at sometime in life. So there will always be a level of 'resistance'...
Even the death penalty didnt stop murders happening.
I certainly dont prescribe to a 'Darwinistic' approach to the road, although it does have a certain 'appeal' until you consider the 'fucknut' is going to take someone else out/with them; or, maybe a better approach is. A stepped licence system, restricting access to high power vehicles to those with a 'high skill' license. A period of time has to elapse each step,(and not just months) and/or a more stringent, or advanced skill acquired (AMI for instance) ... it would help encourage less 'completely stupidly' powered cars and bikes on the road...
and lets be honest,,, WHERE SAFELY could you operate on the NZ roads a ZX1400? (which de-restricted in Aussie did 330kph+) ?
Maybe the Krauts had it right years ago when they had a 100bhp law for motorcycles,,,, The 'master blaster's' of the 70's and early 80's all made do with around 90-100bhp.

[MD]

I hope I can have a good look for cellphone offences and not find one.
Have I had too many wines?

1, Cell phones
Seriously I have seen SO MANY people driving while on the phone lately. It's an epidemic. Please book them all. I must have missed where they passed a law that using your phone while driving exempts you from giving way and indicating. I should stop diligently indicating my lane changes and turns at intersections so I can say, it's Ok Officer, I didn't need to indicate/give way because I was yapping on my phone. Oh sonny that's alright then, sorry I pulled you over, I didn't realise you were on the phone.

2. You can never have too many wines. Just not while driving. But you know that.

Unfortunately for me today a 9 kph tolerance wasn't going to make jack shit difference to the speed tax invoice I was handed today. My almost four years without a speeding ticket came to an abrupt end. All my tickets have been on open roads in what I consider 'selective' conditions (time and place) to speed but I accept Police have a duty to do and as always I was polite and accepted the tax without argument.

I have lost count of how may 111kph to 115kph fines I have received on boring straight motorways where all about me are doing about 110+. Still it's my choice, my money. I was surprised though that said Officer heading the other way to me on a widely separated motorway could pick my small bike out amongst the herd of SUVs, but apparently so. I could have argued I wasn't identified but he was polite and friendly and gave me no lecture and erred on the much lower 'locked on' speed rather than the rather unpleasant speed initially detected (thank you), so we mutually agreed it was a paperwork exercise. He radioed ahead for half the Police force to swoop on me which proves the often joked about comment, you can't out run a radio wave. How I wish they would show such energy towards those that are simply piss poor drivers. Still, after endless wet weekends I had a blast stretching the MVs legs today.

[R650R]

1, Cell phones
Seriously I have seen SO MANY people driving while on the phone lately. It's an epidemic. Please book them all.

Waste of time, its funny what annoys people, what they think is dangerous compared to real world happenings. Phones and say tailgating are a couple of obvious things easy to spot that annoy people but prob result in few real crashes as a percentage overall. In over ten years of professional truck driving I've had my fair share of near misses plus on bike, honestly none have ever had a phone glued to their ear.
To me phones are just say 10% of the possible ways to be distracted or fatigued and not paying the appropriate attention.
Campaigns around phones and drink driving just ignore our core problem of poor driving standards.
There should just be one driving/riding offence of "Not of the Required Standard". Make the experience a permanent driving test that never ends.

[Big Dog]

Waste of time, its funny what annoys people, what they think is dangerous compared to real world happenings. Phones and say tailgating are a couple of obvious things easy to spot that annoy people but prob result in few real crashes as a percentage overall. In over ten years of professional truck driving I've had my fair share of near misses plus on bike, honestly none have ever had a phone glued to their ear.
To me phones are just say 10% of the possible ways to be distracted or fatigued and not paying the appropriate attention.
Campaigns around phones and drink driving just ignore our core problem of poor driving standards.
There should just be one driving/riding offence of "Not of the Required Standard". Make the experience a permanent driving test that never ends.

The key that makes phones a target instead of "Not of the required standard" is there is no judgement involved.
You were using a phone.
You were not using a phone.

Pretty hard to say "you were driving badly" because compared to what and by whose judgement? Bloody hard to prove that that is being policed in an unbiased way.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Akzle]

Pretty hard to say "you were driving badly" because compared to what and by whose judgement?

the kb tribunal, obviously.

[R650R]

Pretty hard to say "you were driving badly" because compared to what and by whose judgement? Bloody hard to prove that that is being policed in an unbiased way.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

It would be just like the good ol days when you only got stopped if your driving caught the attention of cops, seemed to work ok then. What it would do is allow people with the mental capacity to drive and use phone to carry on as normal while so teen with ADHD and a touch screen phone with forehead resting on steering wheel swerving across lanes gets pulled.
This way the real accidents waiting to happen would get pulled and safe people wouldn't be taking up police time.