Japa vs. American/Euro Rivalry!

[Motoracer]

I can understand where you are coming from but smaller bikes are just different. And you just work around the differences. I'd rather ride my TZR 250 in the rain than a big bike cause when I loose the front around corners, it is a LOT easier to get it back than a bigger bike. However I do wish sometimes that I had more acceleration to overtake cars quicker or squeeze through a tight closing gap faster.

I'd say the lightweight is a major advantage but the major disadvantage is the lack of power (for traffic situations only). In my opposing opinion, I think that small cc bikes aren't a threat to the rider and society at all! lol

[Indiana_Jones]

lol well guess jap is only option really as I'm on 250cc limit
But then again I would wave to both parties, we're all one big happy family

-Indy

[MikeL]

Jackrat, I don't want to get involved in a slanging match, and you are entitled to your opinion like everyone else. It would however be better to base your opinion on fact not ignorance. You can't understand why some people even nowadays refuse to buy Japanese products because of WW2. Talk to some of the men who fought in Borneo (there are a few still alive) Read about the atrocities. Get your facts right (Japan only surrendered because of and after Hiroshima & Nagasaki).
I have 2 Jap bikes, a Jap car and the usual Jap electronic gear and when I buy these things I have no reason to consider anything other than value for money, quality, reliability etc. My father, who died in the 70s, would never buy a Japanese product. He was in Borneo. Although he rarely talked about it, I have an inkling of what he experienced. The world moves on, and for a later generation there is a new perspective on things. But I respect my father's choice which I imagine reflects a commitment he made to the memory of his fallen comrades.
As for other prejudices against Japanese bikes from the BMW/HD/Triumph/Italian brigades, it's just the usual snobbery/oneupmanship/elitism that emerges in order to justify to yourself the fact that you paid twice as much as you needed.

[Zed]

Jackrat, I don't want to get involved in a slanging match, and you are entitled to your opinion like everyone else. It would however be better to base your opinion on fact not ignorance. You can't understand why some people even nowadays refuse to buy Japanese products because of WW2. Talk to some of the men who fought in Borneo (there are a few still alive) Read about the atrocities. Get your facts right (Japan only surrendered because of and after Hiroshima & Nagasaki).
I have 2 Jap bikes, a Jap car and the usual Jap electronic gear and when I buy these things I have no reason to consider anything other than value for money, quality, reliability etc. My father, who died in the 70s, would never buy a Japanese product. He was in Borneo. Although he rarely talked about it, I have an inkling of what he experienced. The world moves on, and for a later generation there is a new perspective on things. But I respect my father's choice which I imagine reflects a commitment he made to the memory of his fallen comrades.
As for other prejudices against Japanese bikes from the BMW/HD/Triumph/Italian brigades, it's just the usual snobbery/oneupmanship/elitism that emerges in order to justify to yourself the fact that you paid twice as much as you needed.

Great entiltled opinion!!

[wkid_one]

I can understand where you are coming from but smaller bikes are just different. And you just work around the differences. I'd rather ride my TZR 250 in the rain than a big bike cause when I loose the front around corners, it is a LOT easier to get it back than a bigger bike. However I do wish sometimes that I had more acceleration to overtake cars quicker or squeeze through a tight closing gap faster.

I'd say the lightweight is a major advantage but the major disadvantage is the lack of power (for traffic situations only). In my opposing opinion, I think that small cc bikes aren't a threat to the rider and society at all! lol

Ummm - look at the more modern sports bikes - and they aren't giving that much weight up to a 250cc bike anymore. Plus, with all the R&D being invested in the large bore bikes (rather than small capacity bikes) - I think would rather trust the handling of one of these.

[wkid_one]

I'm glad you asked...my opinion is from a 600+cc perspective remember.

Small bikes lack power (especially when you need to get around something quick- depends how you ride I suppose)
Small bikes are too light- hard to control in winds & rain.
Small bikes are a greater risk in the blindspot of a car.

There is an attitude that comes from riding a big bike that small bike riders don't seem to have- a respect for greater speed and power that can be used as an advantage in times of danger!Zed

Yes they have less TORQUE to overtake, as for too light - refer my previous post. Greater Risk of blindspot - no way.

At the end of the day it is the RIDER that makes the bike safe - not the bike itself. As for the attitude - it works AGAINST big bore bike riders. They can just fang down a striaght, brake hard, roll round a corner and fang off again and think they are quick. The fact that they don't have to plan their overtaking moves (or worse, under estimate the danger) - is more a danger than a help. The fact they have engineering and development under their arse that WAY EXCEEDS their ability to ride greats a false sense of security.

Don't be so quick to assume bigger is better. It comes with its own problems.

[Marmoot]

Well....yeah. A big bike the size of a full-grown Humvee would be safer than a (relatively) tiny Goldwing. :sly:

[wkid_one]

Well....yeah. A big bike the size of a full-grown Humvee would be safer than a (relatively) tiny Goldwing. :sly:

Marmoot is my case in point - his bigger bike definitely wasn't safer! Neither was my R1

[Zed]

Yes they have less TORQUE to overtake, as for too light - refer my previous post. Greater Risk of blindspot - no way.

At the end of the day it is the RIDER that makes the bike safe - not the bike itself. As for the attitude - it works AGAINST big bore bike riders. They can just fang down a striaght, brake hard, roll round a corner and fang off again and think they are quick. The fact that they don't have to plan their overtaking moves (or worse, under estimate the danger) - is more a danger than a help. The fact they have engineering and development under their arse that WAY EXCEEDS their ability to ride greats a false sense of security.

Don't be so quick to assume bigger is better. It comes with its own problems.

Mine isn't an assumption! It's based on years of experience and discussions with those in the know- Bigger is a far more enjoyable & safer riding experience than smaller.


Zed

[wkid_one]

Mine isn't an assumption! It's based on years of experience and discussions with those in the know- Bigger is a far more enjoyable & safer riding experience than smaller.


Zed

Unlike me I will disagree. Having recently ridden a 250cc bike - I loved it.....the R1/VTR are incredibly lazy bikes to ride. You have all the power and torque in the world.......

As for them being safer??? Based on experience and discussion = OPINION and here I was thinking you were going to finish that sentence with FACTS? Silly me.

Everyone on this site has an experience/discussion/opinion. Support you statement with FACTS?

They may SEEM safer, because typically when you ride a 250CC bike you are LEARNING and when you go to the bigger bike you know what you are doing! This is illusionary. They more be more comfortable due to the power, torque. As for SIZE??? my R1 is SMALLER than many 250cc bikes.....the new R1 is than same size as the R6? The new CBR1k is the same size as the 600RR......Gee - you should tell the manufacturers that BIGGER IS SAFER - because they are going the opposite way.

There is NO WAY you can convince me a 180hp 165kg R1 is a safer proposition than a VFR400? That is like trying to tell me a Nissan Skyline on NOS is 'safer' than a Ford Mondeo GLX. RUBBISH.

...

[Marmoot]

Mine isn't an assumption! It's based on years of experience and discussions with those in the know- Bigger is a far more enjoyable & safer riding experience than smaller.


Zed

Do I sense a Freudian case in here?
And, about "bigger is a far more enjoyable", what about if we ask our Biker Angels to fill us in on this issue?

[Zed]

Unlike me I will disagree. Having recently ridden a 250cc bike - I loved it.....the R1/VTR are incredibly lazy bikes to ride. You have all the power and torque in the world.......

As for them being safer??? Based on experience and discussion = OPINION and here I was thinking you were going to finish that sentence with FACTS? Silly me.

Everyone on this site has an experience/discussion/opinion. Support you statement with FACTS?

They may SEEM safer, because typically when you ride a 250CC bike you are LEARNING and when you go to the bigger bike you know what you are doing! This is illusionary. They more be more comfortable due to the power, torque. As for SIZE??? my R1 is SMALLER than many 250cc bikes.....the new R1 is than same size as the R6? The new CBR1k is the same size as the 600RR......Gee - you should tell the manufacturers that BIGGER IS SAFER - because they are going the opposite way.

There is NO WAY you can convince me a 180hp 165kg R1 is a safer proposition than a VFR400? That is like trying to tell me a Nissan Skyline on NOS is 'safer' than a Ford Mondeo GLX. RUBBISH.

...

Whatever...

Why were you getting out of motorcycling again?

Let me speak with a real biker!

[Motu]

So,real bikers only go up in power size and price - to opt for less makes one less of a rider....sorry,looks like I am now dickless.

[KATWYN]

Do I sense a Freudian case in here?
And, about "bigger is a far more enjoyable", what about if we ask our Biker Angels to fill us in on this issue?

Well putting Freudian ideas aside (where does one start with his theories tunnels and trains, biting horses etc!),bigger is not better and certainly not very enjoyable when it comes to the darn thing tipping over onto you pinning you to the ground, A smaller lighter bike would be more preferable in these instances....so I found out. As far as on the road goes, personally comparing my cbr250 to the yzfr6 I feel safer and in more control on the yzfr6 and in saying that there was a few years difference between the two
which probably wouldnt help

[Kickaha]

So,real bikers only go up in power size and price - to opt for less makes one less of a rider....sorry,looks like I am now dickless.

Having gone from a Ducati 900 to a GN125 bucket I guess I'll be joining that club to!

Each to his own I guess,but there is no way you will convince me that size/brand and type of bike relates to how safe it is,it all comes down to the individual riders attitude.