11 September - 4 years on

[SARGE]

Still sounding good so far...

Until the threat of you appearing on TV, then it started to get nasty...

dont worry .. i'll be back lit for effect ..

seriously though..

5 years ago.. politics aside.. think of the nearly 3000 people who died in this cowardly attack..think of the anguish of the families who loved ones remains have never been found.. the first responders are true heros.. running into the towers knowing that they may not make it back out ..THAT my friends is the TRUE America.. not the bullshit sound bites .. not the partisainship ..

i dont like Bush personally.. i DO have to throw my support behind him however.. i wish he would take the kid gloves off however and bring the noise

today is Patriot Day in the US.. i am flying the Stars n Bars outside Camp Sarge and will be all week..even though i am getting the old " hairy-eye" from the lovely Muslim next door neighbors..

bring it .

[Wolf]

5 years ago.. politics aside.. think of the nearly 3000 people who died in this cowardly attack..think of the anguish of the families who loved ones remains have never been found.. the first responders are true heros.. running into the towers knowing that they may not make it back out ..THAT my friends is the TRUE America.. not the bullshit sound bites .. not the partisainship .

True heroes, to me, include the passengers on the third plane who realised they were already dead and decided to make their deaths mean something by foiling the attack. To act knowing that even if you succeed, you're not going to survive - that's heroism. Even more so if those doing it are not soldiers.

Soldiers are paid to do that - they can be ordered to lay down their lives in effectively a suicide mission. The passengers were not soldiers, they were average citizens, but they still acted. No one ordered them to, they each chose the path of the hero.

I still get tears in my eyes whenever I think of them.

[kickingzebra]

Running the flag is all good, but doesn't the rvr detract somewhat from the Team America, Fuck yeah image?
Quickly, go buy a decent yank tank, I'll chick in 5 bucks for purchase and 20 for gas

I was one of the early wakers as well. Was truely bizarre, people going about their daily business, and then some whackjobs decide to kill them, with no intention, no state of war, nothing. Just out of the blue.
Cowardice, rewardable in some worldviews, but detestable to humanity.

[SARGE]

True heroes, to me, include the passengers on the third plane who realised they were already dead and decided to make their deaths mean something by foiling the attack. To act knowing that even if you succeed, you're not going to survive - that's heroism. Even more so if those doing it are not soldiers.

Soldiers are paid to do that - they can be ordered to lay down their lives in effectively a suicide mission. The passengers were not soldiers, they were average citizens, but they still acted. No one ordered them to, they each chose the path of the hero.

I still get tears in my eyes whenever I think of them.

very true man .. i watched the Flight that fought back on Discovery last night ..those folks decided to go out on their feet like lions rather than die like sheep..

i cant say i would have done any less personally..

in the original post i was referring to the firefighters and police who went into the towers though.. those guys have a special place in heaven as far as im concerned..

Running the flag is all good, but doesn't the rvr detract somewhat from the Team America, Fuck yeah image?
Quickly, go buy a decent yank tank, I'll chick in 5 bucks for purchase and 20 for gas

I was one of the early wakers as well. Was truely bizarre, people going about their daily business, and then some whackjobs decide to kill them, with no intention, no state of war, nothing. Just out of the blue.
Cowardice, rewardable in some worldviews, but detestable to humanity.

the RVR is a grocery getter/ surfboard transporter..i plan on bringing my Mustang down next year for the odd Saturday night cruise / blast down Champion Dragway..

the FJ is the primary mode of transportation..i'd ride a Harley or a Buell if there was one straight section of road in the Auckland area ..

[Virago]

.......I got up early for some reason on this day, years ago and turned on the TV for no apparant reason......

It was a little amusing listening to the twats on the radio this morning, talking about "5 years ago today", and talking of how they woke to the news, exactly 5 years ago.

Is it worth pointing out that the events happened on Sept 12 by our calendar? You're a day early guys.......

[SARGE]

It was a little amusing listening to the twats on the radio this morning, talking about "5 years ago today", and talking of how they woke to the news, exactly 5 years ago.

Is it worth pointing out that the events happened on Sept 12 by our calendar? You're a day early guys.......

im still on US Eastern Standard Time..

[Sniper]

A date is a date to me. Regardless on time zones.

[SARGE]

A date is a date to me. Regardless on time zones.

this whole week .. im gonna be a grumpy bastard anyway..

might go have a sit down on Stoddard road tonight....

[Wolf]

It was a little amusing listening to the twats on the radio this morning, talking about "5 years ago today", and talking of how they woke to the news, exactly 5 years ago.

Give them a break, they're radio DJs - they can't be expected to think...

[Sniper]

this whole week .. im gonna be a grumpy bastard anyway..

Dont blame ya. Im like that when people talk about x years since Mandela changed the govt for good ect, or when the Kiwi's play rugby against SA and expect me to be interested.

might go have a sit down on Stoddard road tonight....

Not familiar with the area, but I take it you are not doing it for shits and giggles?

[Ixion]

..
might go have a sit down on Stoddard road tonight....

Go for y'life. I'll be passing that way in the Pajero, so if Mr Motu doesn't squash you (he takes no prisoners), prolly I may.

[terbang]

Yup Sarge I like your post. I was in the air over the UK when it happened and believe me, my job as an Airline pilot has been changed forever as a result of what happpened that day.

[Biff]

Getting faintly back on the original topic, does anyone else think it odd that the French Government didn't immediately sacrifice a senior Civil Servant or Politician's career

From what I recall the then programme director (don't know his name) of the DGSE was given early retirement, and told to go and live on an island in the pacific, which he duly did. Apparently he died there of natural causes sometime in the late 80s. An independent post mortem requested by his wife was allegedly refused.

I've just googled and can't find any reference to this claim. However I was told this by a guy who I believe to me more than credible (and unfortunately French).

I humbly offer my apologies here:

I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took up arms and sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was in the defense of Muslims (Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1, Kuwait, Beruit etc.).

Sorry to disagree with you and your supportes on here Sage, but I cannot agree with your statement that 'it was in the defense of Muslims'. Although I accept that the US has helped out the rest of the world on numerous occasions.

I know of no instances (though happy to stand corrected) throughout military history when the US has decided to jump to help Muslims because they were Muslims. They've done it for 'other' reasons. And the US most definitely made no such decision in helping out in the Balkans (which includes Kosovo) simply in an attempt to defend Muslims. Indeed the areas in the Balkans (predominantly in Kosovo) where the Muslims lived was under the control of the Spanish, Germans and Portuguese during the conflict (referred to as MNBS). The only real involvement the US had in this region is best forgotten (accidents happen to school buses painted a 'greenish purple colour' (?!). Although the US is driving the political will for Kosovo to become ( a non-Muslim governed) independant state/principality/country (history and the pople of the region will decide).

The real reason why the US helped SHAPE out during this conflict? Because they had a responsibility to NATO perhaps? Whatever the genuine reason, their involvment helped to bring a swift resolution to the problems in the region.

In your post you categorize all Muslims and Arabs as being the same, having the same education, being Arabs, (dont forget the rest of the world, where most Muslims live) and having the same upbringing etc is obviously incorrect. But I know you know this. You make a dangerous generalization about their education, living conditions, Arabs (whatever your definition of an Arab is), beliefs etc. And it’s because of opinions like this that we’re in the shit that we are today.

I thank the US for all the positive assistance they've given the wider world over the years. But I blame them (the current administration) for the fact that I feel we now live in a far more dangerous world than before the invasion of Iraq. And the world may continue to become a more dangerous place for the next 100 + years. For that I offer no thanks whatsoever to the false democracy which now exists in the US.

Don't blame the US - blame their president. A lying, deceitful, manipulating fruit cake. Although it's more likely the case that it's his father and the neo-conservatives that really run the country.

Oh – and as for Iran. A wonderful place and home to tens of millions of peaceful and loving people. I love it there. Unfortunately fanatics run the country, and they feed the press BS in an attempt to gain the support of their public. Sound familiar?

RIP to all those who have died at the hand of political and religious fruitcakes the world over.

[gijoe1313]

I hear the cost of the twin towers is taking its toll on the original rescuers, apparantly the toxins released from the burning and other noxious materials has caused the same distressing effects.

More everyday people succumbing to the original act of terrorism, as usual innocents (from all sides) pay for the cock-ups of their respective (mis)leaders.

@Virago : heck, I can't even work out which year I'm in most of the times! But yeah, we're a whole day ahead out this way, all I could remember was the broadcasts from the US networks saying over and over "its the 11th" guess it kinda stuck.

[SARGE]

Sorry to disagree with you and your supportes on here Sage, but I cannot agree with your statement that 'it was in the defense of Muslims'. Although I accept that the US has helped out the rest of the world on numerous occasions.
I know of no instances (though happy to stand corrected) throughout military history when the US has decided to jump to help Muslims because they were Muslims. They've done it for 'other' reasons. And the US most definitely made no such decision in helping out in the Balkans (which includes Kosovo) simply in an attempt to defend Muslims. Indeed the areas in the Balkans (predominantly in Kosovo) where the Muslims lived was under the control of the Spanish, Germans and Portuguese during the conflict (referred to as MNBS). The only real involvement the US had in this region is best forgotten (accidents happen to school buses painted a 'greenish purple colour' (?!). Although the US is driving the political will for Kosovo to become ( a non-Muslim governed) independant state/principality/country (history and the pople of the region will decide).

god.. where do i start??...

ok Biff.. you know i have the greatest respect for you so here goes ..

the UNMNF in Beruit in 1983.. we were there at the request of the UN to support Hezbollah and the PLO because until the point we go there , the Isrealis were dishing out a hiding to them.. no we didnt jump to their aid but we didnt refuse either ...

my company CO ..Captain Charles Johnson faced down an Isrealli Tank patrol and threatened to shoot the commander if he did not withdraw.. ( Google Capt Johnson Company L to read the story..)

thats only ONE instance ..

In your post you categorize all Muslims and Arabs as being the same, having the same education, being Arabs, (dont forget the rest of the world, where most Muslims live) and having the same upbringing etc is obviously incorrect. But I know you know this. You make a dangerous generalization about their education, living conditions, Arabs (whatever your definition of an Arab is), beliefs etc. And it’s because of opinions like this that we’re in the shit that we are today.

i disagree Biff.. but let me qualify my statements... i dont have a problem with ordinary Muslim/ Arabs..my unit regularly played Gridiron with some of the local Lebanese guys .went fishing with a few of them also.. some of the girls would bring us home made grub quite often...i have more than once given up my MRE desserts to local Muslim kids .. we used to toss cans of Coke to them as well.. i really like the Lebanese people as a whole ..

back on topic now .... lets say your father doesnt like Bill Collectors ..every night at the dinner table .. he rants on about how evil they are and how they are responsible for all the worlds ills.. now after 20 years of hearing this evrey night at the dinner table .. you have a definate impression of a bill collector and it probably WONT be positive ..

now young Mohammed in Iraq has a father/ uncle/ brother who hates " infidels".. he hears them every night ranting on about how the US is the root of all evil and should be destroyed along with Isreal..

you see where im going here ??

I thank the US for all the positive assistance they've given the wider world over the years. But I blame them (the current administration) for the fact that I feel we now live in a far more dangerous world than before the invasion of Iraq. And the world may continue to become a more dangerous place for the next 100 + years. For that I offer no thanks whatsoever to the false democracy which now exists in the US.

Don't blame the US - blame their president. A lying, deceitful, manipulating fruit cake. Although it's more likely the case that it's his father and the neo-conservatives that really run the country.

please Biff.. read America's Secret War.. this goes WAY further back than the Neo Cons.. this goes back to the end of WW2 and the Shah of Iran.. the History Channel just had a GREAT doco on the rise of the Ayatollah Khomeni and the New Caliphate

Oh – and as for Iran. A wonderful place and home to tens of millions of peaceful and loving people. I love it there. Unfortunately fanatics run the country, and they feed the press BS in an attempt to gain the support of their public. Sound familiar?

RIP to all those who have died at the hand of political and religious fruitcakes the world over.

green awarded bro... i'm shouting you a beer and an argument next time you are in the big smoke