Slip-on cans for LAMS bikes?

[TheDemonLord]

Yes it is, but that's the whole point.

I meant compared to my 250 Hornet

[BlackSheepLogic]

If it was me I would ditch the "L-plate" and buy something that meet my needs. Ride with a low profile, it's not hard to get a small bike for a couple of hours when required.

Also, bigger bikes are better on the open road, it more relaxed riding , much more stable in the wind/traffic and the larger bikes don't have to be abused as much.

Its not that simple.

The formula is.

Factory claimed horsepower less 20% due to bullshitz and factory claimed weight plus 14kg due to bullshitz plus rider weight (60kg)against guber ment calculations plus new pipe variation of 2% power increase is still under 150/1000 so legally you can claim the pipe made the bike fatter and reduced its power rather than increased it and when it was weighed and dyno tested the new figures would confirm this as fact...........unless the bike is built lately to be lams compliant and the figures have been understated rather than overstated.

So the correct answer is the bike seemed to have a lot more top end power with the original pipe and im thinking of putting it back on again.

[Erelyes]

This simply says one must ride an 'Approved' motorcycle.....

The definitions under that act say

approved motorcycle means the make and model of any motorcycle that�

(a) has an engine capacity of 250 cc or less, unless the Agency has prohibited the use of that make and model of motorcycle by notice published on the Agency's Internet site; or

(b) has an engine capacity of more than 250 cc but not more than 660 cc and a power-to-weight ratio of not more than 150 kilowatts per tonne and is approved for use by the Agency by notice published on the Agency's Internet site

As I see it the law doesn't prohibit modifications per se - what it does do is give carte blanche for NZTA to 'approve' or 'not approve' any motorcycle they see fit (italicised). Hence their putting up a statement on their website that 'Any motorcycle modified to increase power-to-weight is NOT approved'. Both a) and )b are italicised, so it applies to 0-660cc, not just over 250's.

It's a messy way to do it, it'd be far preferable for the 'no modifications' rule to just be written into the law....

Added to which:

• The officer obviously has no way of establishing the weight and power of the bike roadside
• I'm not sure whether onus of proof is on the Police or on the rider
• This may sound dumb but it doesn't specify if multiple modifications are considered separately, or in combination (important though!)
• It doesn't specify whether the 'increased' power-to-weight is an increase from the metrics of the actual bike in question before modifications, or what the manufacturer quotes for that model

If the cop is nice at the time and you think you are legal I'd explain why (i.e. slipon doesn't change power, admit that it is 2kg lighter, but that you have crash bungs / hotgrips / pack rack which evens things out). If you sound convincing enough, the PO is likely to believe there was no intent to the 'offending' and let you away.

If that fails though you'll be in for some letter-writing with Police, or if that fails, a court hearing in front of a judge. I could go into what I'd do in those situations but that'd be another novel entirely...

[n3Xro]

The way I intepret the rule on the NZTA website is that its only the 251 - 660 are prohibited from being modded (could be wrong here) however as a hypothetical - if you put say Aluminium brake levers on your 250 - the several grams you have saved HAS changed the power to weight - so I don't see how it could be enforceable.

I'm with you on this, the reference to the bikes here http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/gett...cles/lams.html clearly states that only bikes from 251 to 660 and have to be in standard form. ALL bikes 250 and under are LAMs approved if not on the no list thus if you have a 250 thats not on the no list then you can go nuts...

[Erelyes]

I'm with you on this, the reference to the bikes here http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/gett...cles/lams.html clearly states that only bikes from 251 to 660 and have to be in standard form. ALL bikes 250 and under are LAMs approved if not on the no list thus if you have a 250 thats not on the no list then you can go nuts...

Except for the statement at the bottom of that page

It is your responsibility to make sure that you only ride an approved motorcycle as produced by the manufacturer without any modifications to increase its power-to-weight ratio

[Mike.Gayner]

I'm with you on this, the reference to the bikes here http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/gett...cles/lams.html clearly states that only bikes from 251 to 660 and have to be in standard form. ALL bikes 250 and under are LAMs approved if not on the no list thus if you have a 250 thats not on the no list then you can go nuts...

Are you being deliberately dense? Right from the page you linked:

LAMS-approved motorcycles include:

All motorcycles with engine capacities of 250cc and under, except for those on the LAMS-prohibited list above.

Then refer to the FAQ or other information about LAMS bikes, you'll find this:
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/gett.../lams-faqs.pdf

What if a motorcycle is on the list and has been modified in a way that has increased
its power-to-weight ratio?
Any motorcycle that has been modified to increase its power-to-weight ratio is no longer
LAMS-complaint and must not be ridden on a learner or restricted motorcycle licence.

So from that we can glean that:

• 250cc motorcycles are LAMS-approved
• ANY motorcycle that has been modified is no longer LAMS approved
• Therefore any 250 which has been modified is no longer apporoved

Why is this even an issue anyway? Who are these people still buying 250cc motorcycles, and why? And more to the point, if you're going to deliberately choose some gay slow 250cc motorcycle, why are you going to bother trying to increase the power of it? Just buy a real motorbike in the first place.

[iranana]

IMO it makes it illegal. If you read between the lines (as Erelyes is), you could possibly argue your way out, but I doubt the powers that be would agree if they had you up on it. But, who would know? For example, I ride an old 250 2 smoker, I'm on my restricted cause I'm lazy and I put chambers on her a while back (but I've since taken them off). Went through a couple of cop stops with them on and they didn't even look twice, despite the fact they were blatantly not stock and they were pretty freaking loud, especially when it got on the pipe (and that's why I took them off...plus stock looks nicer)

[bogan]

Are you being deliberately dense? Right from the page you linked:

Try reading the actual act's terms, as Erelyes posted some of the relevant bits. Nowhere in the legislation can I find mention of even modifying 250+cc bikes, let alone the automatically approved 250cc and under class. But you'll let me know if cops/courts ever switch from referring to actual legislation in favor of the dumbed down for plebs nzta site right?

"Conditions of restricted licence

(1)
The holder of a restricted licence of a particular class is authorised to drive a vehicle to which that class of licence relates if the holder complies with the following conditions:

(a)
in the case of a Class 1R licence, the holder—

(i)
must not carry any passenger, other than the holder's spouse, partner, parent, guardian, or dependant, unless the holder is accompanied by a person described in subclause (2); and

(ii)
must not drive between the hours of 10 pm and 5 am unless the holder is accompanied by a person described in subclause (2); and

(b)
in the case of a Class 6R licence, where the holder is riding a motorcycle, the holder—

(i)
must ride an approved motorcycle; and

(ii)
must not—

(A)
ride between the hours of 10 pm and 5 am; or

(B)
use the motorcycle to tow another vehicle; or

(C)
carry another person on the motorcycle or in a sidecar attached to the motorcycle; and

(c)
in the case of a Class 6R licence, where the holder is riding a moped, the holder must not—

(i)
ride between the hours of 10 pm and 5 am; or

(ii)
carry another person on the moped or in a sidecar attached to the moped."

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regul...25_se&p=1&sr=2

"approved motorcycle means the make and model of any motorcycle that—

(a)
has an engine capacity of 250 cc or less, unless the Agency has prohibited the use of that make and model of motorcycle by notice published on the Agency's Internet site; or

(b)
has an engine capacity of more than 250 cc but not more than 660 cc and a power-to-weight ratio of not more than 150 kilowatts per tonne and is approved for use by the Agency by notice published on the Agency's Internet site"

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regul...25_se&p=1&sr=0

[Grashopper]

Hm, on another note, I do not stare at motorbikes all the time (only if one goes past, or they are parked in a 200 m radius away from me or they totally accidentally come up in my web browser...), but so far, when I bought my bikes I would have not noticed if they hadn't had the original exhausts on there. (Will that get me kicked out of the forum now? )

So how does the normal garden variety cop know that the exhaust on the bike is not the one the bike originally came with?

[BlackSheepLogic]

Seems like a grey area to me.

Cans won't make much different, but a heavily modified 250 could be quite a potent weapon on the streets.

[Drew]

Try reading the actual act's terms, as Erelyes posted some of the relevant bits. Nowhere in the legislation can I find mention of even modifying 250+cc bikes, let alone the automatically approved 250cc and under class. But you'll let me know if cops/courts ever switch from referring to actual legislation in favor of the dumbed down for plebs nzta site right?

"Conditions of restricted licence

(1)
The holder of a restricted licence of a particular class is authorised to drive a vehicle to which that class of licence relates if the holder complies with the following conditions:

(a)
in the case of a Class 1R licence, the holder—

(i)
must not carry any passenger, other than the holder's spouse, partner, parent, guardian, or dependant, unless the holder is accompanied by a person described in subclause (2); and

(ii)
must not drive between the hours of 10 pm and 5 am unless the holder is accompanied by a person described in subclause (2); and

(b)
in the case of a Class 6R licence, where the holder is riding a motorcycle, the holder—

(i)
must ride an approved motorcycle; and

(ii)
must not—

(A)
ride between the hours of 10 pm and 5 am; or

(B)
use the motorcycle to tow another vehicle; or

(C)
carry another person on the motorcycle or in a sidecar attached to the motorcycle; and

(c)
in the case of a Class 6R licence, where the holder is riding a moped, the holder must not—

(i)
ride between the hours of 10 pm and 5 am; or

(ii)
carry another person on the moped or in a sidecar attached to the moped."

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regul...25_se&p=1&sr=2

"approved motorcycle means the make and model of any motorcycle that—

(a)
has an engine capacity of 250 cc or less, unless the Agency has prohibited the use of that make and model of motorcycle by notice published on the Agency's Internet site; or

(b)
has an engine capacity of more than 250 cc but not more than 660 cc and a power-to-weight ratio of not more than 150 kilowatts per tonne and is approved for use by the Agency by notice published on the Agency's Internet site"

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regul...25_se&p=1&sr=0

Black and white. Go nuts with modding the 250 or smaller.

[EJK]

Putting the Law aside, it doesn't matter if you just put a slip-on tin can or put up a full Yoshi + PCV + Performance airfilter on a LAMS bike.

Modified or non-modified LAMS bike, they are still slow regardless. Save money.

[pritch]

Some years ago one of the bike mags did a test of aftermarket pipes on a big bike. The best gave an improvement of 3bhp. The worst made less hp than the standard can.

My suggestion would be that the OP waits until he gets a bigger bike before he worries about wasting hard earned on a can.

[avgas]

[FJRider]

Demonlord, that's not correct. Modifying any LAMS bike (including a 250) in a way that changes its power to weight ratio (to any extent) makes the bike no longer LAMS compliant. Changing to a slip-on will reduce weight and increase power, and even though that power increase may only be a quarter of one horsepower, it still makes the bike no longer compliant.

Actually ... Including a 250 ... is NOT correct.

From the NZTA web site ...

LAMS-approved motorcycles include:

All motorcycles with engine capacities of 250cc and under, except for those on the LAMS-prohibited list above.

Fully electric powered motorcycles with a power-to-weight ratio of 150 kilowatts per tonne and under (this includes all fully electric powered motorcycles registered on New Zealand's Motor Vehicle Register as of 1 June 2012).

All motorcycles manufactured prior to 1960 with an engine capacity of 660cc and under.


The following list of motorcycles with engine capacities between 251cc and 660cc - these motorcycles must be in standard form as produced by the manufacturer. They cannot be modified in any way to increase the power-to-weight ratio.



http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/gett...cles/lams.html