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Thread: GPS setup for Rescue Helicopter

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
    If it's a PLB with GPS built-in.
    Perfect, does anyone make one?
    Cheers Paul
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by R650R View Post
    One thing I'd caution is giving too much information to the civvies they have in these call centres these days. Don't go getting too technical with them, just read out what ever set of numbers you've chosen and let the chopper guys do their thing. That's if their not too busy trying to talk over the top of you while your reading out the rego number of an offenders vehicle fleeing the scene....

    This whole situation kinda implies a second person is unharmed and calm enough to pass on these numbers, in which case they can also eyeball the chopper and guide them in with more info. My house is on the flight path and I hear it from km's away in an urban environment.

    Don't forget the classic smoke and mirrors. The crash bike will likely have donated some mirror glass for signalling, and if the bikes toast those tyres will be good for Indian smoke signals

    I try and keep in mind last small town passed through and rough km's, good insurance against GPS numbers being transposed by call centre.

    Just realised I can phone my sat tracker on bike and get lat/long GPS plus google maps link. If calm enough at the time I could also authorise ambos phone number o they could bring it up on their smart phone.
    Yes totally agree, we give them all this good info and they fuck it up anyway.

    We yes it does need a second person but so does a radio, activating PLBs, smoke signals or homing pigeons but you got to start some where

    I guess riding in a group is the best option.
    Cheers Paul
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trials Rider View Post
    I guess riding in a group is the best option.
    Not necessarily...
    People tramp and hunt, ride on their lonesome without any issues, the under-prepared are sometimes caught out.
    More like riding to your skills and to the weather conditions...
    Brass monkey as an example...

    (summit fever)

    Got to get there at any cost...

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waihou Thumper View Post
    Not necessarily...
    People tramp and hunt, ride on their lonesome without any issues, the under-prepared are sometimes caught out.
    More like riding to your skills and to the weather conditions...
    Brass monkey as an example...

    (summit fever)

    Got to get there at any cost...
    The main thing I guess I was saying is when shit goes wrong and you are knocked out or incapacitated and unable to activate anything for yourself you can lose valuable time, riding in a group sorts that out.

    Totally agree there was a couple of boys on the Dusty Butt with motocross shirts and light pants only which was fine until it snowed.
    Cheers Paul
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  5. #20
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    Dunno whether I am missing something here but why not latitude and longitude, my Zumo 550 has that (I think)?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crisis management View Post
    Dunno whether I am missing something here but why not latitude and longitude, my Zumo 550 has that (I think)?
    lat and long are measured in degrees, minutes, seconds. Perfectly acceptable, but now days they want it in decimal degrees. Instead of 175d 25m 17s you now have 175.45236
    (not accurate, just ie)
    all roads lead to rome.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crisis management View Post
    Dunno whether I am missing something here but why not latitude and longitude, my Zumo 550 has that (I think)?
    No you haven't missed a thing (apart from all of it ) no just shitting, Lat & Long are correct, it is just a format update that they prefer, its kind of like the difference between imp and metric, whether its 18" or 450mm, it gives you the same results, what they are saying is "we now have a metric ruler and want to use it instead of the old one" hope that makes sense.
    Cheers Paul
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trials Rider View Post
    Perfect, does anyone make one?
    Most modern/high end PLBs are paired up with GPS nowadays. This is the one I use



    Although the situation you had was best dealt with cell phone and advising GPS coordinates like you did.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trials Rider View Post
    No you haven't missed a thing (apart from all of it ) no just shitting, Lat & Long are correct, it is just a format update that they prefer, its kind of like the difference between imp and metric, whether its 18" or 450mm, it gives you the same results, what they are saying is "we now have a metric ruler and want to use it instead of the old one" hope that makes sense.
    I was mildly confused by your references to bearings and tru & magnetic north, I took that to mean you were sugesting using bearings (3 miles south east of Napier) rather than a latitude and longitude position, obviously I am easily confused!
    Interesting about the degrees and decimals of degrees as the correct terminology for latitude and longitude, I suppose it is a way for infrequent users to avoid confusing themselves with degrees and minutes.

    I am used to degrees (south or east in NZ), minutes and decimals of minutes (at least two decimal places of minutes), this is the preferred method for maritime usage / enforced by Maritime NZ which is overlooked by Rescue Co-ordination Centre NZ which also overlooks all land and air search responses. Certainly when we (coastguard) have worked with Westpac Rescue and Police up here it's always been that format, mind you I have been out of that for a few years now so maybe it has changed?

    I will have a look at it tonight.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crisis management View Post
    I was mildly confused by your references to bearings and tru & magnetic north, I took that to mean you were sugesting using bearings (3 miles south east of Napier) rather than a latitude and longitude position, obviously I am easily confused!
    Interesting about the degrees and decimals of degrees as the correct terminology for latitude and longitude, I suppose it is a way for infrequent users to avoid confusing themselves with degrees and minutes.

    I am used to degrees (south or east in NZ), minutes and decimals of minutes (at least two decimal places of minutes), this is the preferred method for maritime usage / enforced by Maritime NZ which is overlooked by Rescue Co-ordination Centre NZ which also overlooks all land and air search responses. Certainly when we (coastguard) have worked with Westpac Rescue and Police up here it's always been that format, mind you I have been out of that for a few years now so maybe it has changed?

    I will have a look at it tonight.
    Yes I am not that techno with it either, thats why I thought rather than reinvent the wheel I would ask the people who use it and how we could help, it sure is a major source of confusion.

    I have been in the fire brigade for 24 years and it staggers me that there isn't an across the board system that all services use.

    Like I said earlier they will still use what you have and re calculate it, the down side is possible errors when punching it into the calculator, some more road oriented GPS units may not even have the relevant info.

    Would be interested to see what you come up with and see if the systems are the same as down here.
    Cheers Paul
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trials Rider View Post
    Would be interested to see what you come up with and see if the systems are the same as down here.
    Ok, my understanding is that the original methodolgy is still used for maritime and aerial navigation, that's degrees, minutes and decimals of minutes. For a bit of useless information, 1 nautical mile (1853 metres) is one minute of longitude so 60 miles (111.180 kms) is one degree of longitude and, just to be pedantic remember that longitude degrees are always 60 Nm while latitude (the crossways ones) vary dependant on the distance from the equator. Latitude is correct at the equator but each degree further north or south they become smaller.
    Anyway, the degrees and decimal degrees is coming into common usage as it's easier and probably more relevant to anyone not involved in maritime navigation.
    Couple of things to remember:
    Make sure you give your actual location, not that of the last destination you punched into the GPS.
    With decimal degrees make sure you are accurate:
    0.1 degrees is 11.118 kms.
    0.01 degrees is 1.111 kms.
    0.001 degrees is 111 metres
    0.0001 degrees is 11 metres.

    As an absolute minimum you need to get to 3 decimal places of accuracy but even that is 10,000 square metres of land to find you in, very hard if you aren't readily visible.

    Best thing to do is to practise using whatever you have so you are familiar with it's operation and remember, unless you have an epirb you are still relying on cell towers....

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crisis management View Post
    Ok, my understanding is that the original methodolgy is still used for maritime and aerial navigation, that's degrees, minutes and decimals of minutes...
    Aye. Except than in describing angles relative to the boat I got taught to use points. As in 11.25 degrees.

    Don't ask.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  13. #28
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    another option is as stated use a PLB which are now so cheap there is almost no reason not to carry one or a spot tracker which i prefer as the gen 3 has email & text contactability. Little plug FCO have them (with GPS location which most now are) on special which not so long ago were $800 if your not a FCO "member" it will cost only $10 for a lifetime.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crisis management View Post
    Ok, my understanding is that the original methodolgy is still used for maritime and aerial navigation, that's degrees, minutes and decimals of minutes. For a bit of useless information, 1 nautical mile (1853 metres) is one minute of longitude so 60 miles (111.180 kms) is one degree of longitude and, just to be pedantic remember that longitude degrees are always 60 Nm while latitude (the crossways ones) vary dependant on the distance from the equator. Latitude is correct at the equator but each degree further north or south they become smaller.
    Anyway, the degrees and decimal degrees is coming into common usage as it's easier and probably more relevant to anyone not involved in maritime navigation.
    Couple of things to remember:
    Make sure you give your actual location, not that of the last destination you punched into the GPS.
    With decimal degrees make sure you are accurate:
    0.1 degrees is 11.118 kms.
    0.01 degrees is 1.111 kms.
    0.001 degrees is 111 metres
    0.0001 degrees is 11 metres.

    As an absolute minimum you need to get to 3 decimal places of accuracy but even that is 10,000 square metres of land to find you in, very hard if you aren't readily visible.

    Best thing to do is to practise using whatever you have so you are familiar with it's operation and remember, unless you have an epirb you are still relying on cell towers....
    FARK I didn't realise falling of the bike would be so complicated, falling off is the easy bit, now I know why they wanted to use the prefered system, any calculation error could put you kms away on the wrong side of a hill.
    Cheers Paul
    Check out our new website www.motomox.co.nz my very own sand pit with lots of cool toys

    My bikes Suzuki DR650 2010, Beta Xtrainer 300 2016, Beta RR498 2014

  15. #30
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    Rescue link on Remote Moto

    Just to let everyone know I have put the same article I started onto www.Remotemoto.com as this thread will get lost in the system so to speak.

    Hopefully helpful to anyone coming from over seas too.

    This is the link http://www.remotemoto.com/articles/g...p-for-rescues/
    Cheers Paul
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