Police getting tougher on speed tolerance

[Scuba_Steve]

But the attitude at WK is now that safety matters more than efficiency. Lives matter more then freight getting to places as fast as it always has.

Thats what they say... If that were true maybe they should do something to improve it
Their own data shows the slower speeds are failing, but do they scrap it & look elsewhere? no, course not, like typical Govt insanity they double down. Still not sure if it's to keep the scam going or they really are just imbeciles

There are plenty of other areas for safety improvements.
Harass slow drivers (improve that avg speed you spoke of)
Use quality seal like in the days of past & stop signing off on sub-par roads
Stop blocking views at intersections & roundabouts in an attempt to fight human nature
Stop putting pedestrian crossings on corners
Stop allowing parking spaces to get closer & closer to corners & pedestrian crossings
Make it so you have to be able to drive to get a licence
Stop making roads slow boring & straight, distraction is the biggest killer!
Stop doing all the thinking for drivers & make them engage their brain, people are lazy if they don't have to think, they won't! Not good for people in control of 2T pieces of steel & plastic
Instead of 30km/h city centers, make them 'shared zones' (& use some of that propaganda moneys to teach people what they are), this would also help carparks
Stop with the overuse of traffic lights, especially on state highways. It only results in stupider drivers & increase in risk takers i.e red light runners
Just to name a few. Some are easy fixes, some would take effort, all would be better than the insanity they continue with

[rastuscat]

Their own data shows the slower speeds are failing, but do they scrap it & look elsewhere?

Skoober !!

Check this out. I've been trawling for actual evidence, and not in the media, who tend to repeat the stuff they think people expect to hear.

https://www.knowledgehub.transport.g...one-worked.pdf

https://www.pressreader.com/new-zeal...81479279761721

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/reso...tes-report.pdf

[Scuba_Steve]

Skoober !!

Check this out. I've been trawling for actual evidence, and not in the media, who tend to repeat the stuff they think people expect to hear.

https://www.knowledgehub.transport.g...one-worked.pdf

https://www.pressreader.com/new-zeal...81479279761721

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/reso...tes-report.pdf

While I'm not willing to dismiss those outright, it appears all the numbers came from those with vested interest to "look good"; so I do say a salt shaker should be on hand when viewing. More investigation will be needed
I also don't know most the roads mentioned, but I dare say there wasn't just a speed change; there was most likely safety equipment installed or roads adjusted as is usually the case.
I do know the SH58 one & the sections they're comparing are quite different, in some respects it would be like having 2 firepits, firepit A uses pine & you enter in plan clothes, firepit B uses gum you wear a firesuit & then determining gum to be a safer firepit fuel.

The lower speeds in CBD's I'm alright with, but again they should be shared zones (which have been shown to be safer overseas) not hard n fast 30k zones... also NZTA need to stop allowing cities/towns to build their CBD's along the main HW's

[rastuscat]

While I'm not willing to dismiss those outright, it appears all the numbers came from those with vested interest to "look good";

What you refer to is confirmation bias. We form a belief, then seek evidence to prove ourselves right, and reject evidence to the contrary.

Oddly, it works both ways. Those who don't believe in speed limit reductions look for evidence that it doesn't work, and reject evidence that it does.

Thing is, the people who write reports like those above know that their views will be subject to analysis, so they tend to present their reasoning and the basis for their findings.

I'm yet to see evidence that we have to keep the speed limits at the level they have been historically in order that civilisation doesn't collapse.

[Scuba_Steve]

What you refer to is confirmation bias. We form a belief, then seek evidence to prove ourselves right, and reject evidence to the contrary.

Oddly, it works both ways. Those who don't believe in speed limit reductions look for evidence that it doesn't work, and reject evidence that it does.

This is true for most & is compounded by social media & the echo chambers they put you in

Thing is, the people who write reports like those above know that their views will be subject to analysis, so they tend to present their reasoning and the basis for their findings.

But this still doesn't stop them giving the financer what they want, or [in the case of the UK study which showed the speed scam to potentially cost lives] for the financer not to release the study (until forced to by OIA; which side-note I see they're locking down here to make it harder still to get info). Lets not forget the Tobacco industry & their studies, Sugar, Monsanto, Asbestos, all have studies which tell the story they want; NZTA/Govt are no different, as you say 'confirmation bias' only difference is they're paying the moneys so someone will say the words they tell them to.

I'm yet to see evidence that we have to keep the speed limits at the level they have been historically in order that civilisation doesn't collapse.

While not wrong there's also very little justification around lowering speeds; it usually comes down to "if you hit a brick wall it's safer to do it at a slower speed" which while true doesn't account for the fact we don't have brick walls popping up out of nowhere or that most cars don't hit brick walls let-alone head-on.


While I can't give you evidence (due to it being "insider knowledge"), & I'm quite happy for you to borrow that salt shaker, I do know NZTA have had meetings about the slowdown of NZ & "road to zero" being failures & how can they "spin the info" to make it look good; thanks to a mate privy to info he is not allowed to share.


There is no 1 solution for road safety, it's a combination of things at varying levels in varying places. This is why I take such offense to NZTA/Govt approach of "this one thing that has very little to do with the cause is our sole focus!" to the detriment of road safety & efficiency as a whole. And before you go there I know it's not quite that black & white, there are other things done too (alot I also don't agree with), but it's not too far off; especially when it comes to inforcement.

[rastuscat]

There is no 1 solution for road safety, it's a combination of things at varying levels in varying places..

Amen fella. Those I hear from often tell me that it's all about driver education, road engineering or stricter enforcement.

When in reality it's about all those things. Trouble is, everyone thinks driver training is a great idea...….for everyone else. And everyone thinks that the roads should be like those in Germany, but nobody wants to pay for them. And everyone wants the cops to catch people breaking the law, but don't want to get caught themselves.

We really are a self centred lot, us humans.

[rastuscat]

Had to laugh at this one. The laws of physics doesn't have a tolerance.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/131...ighspeed-crash

Chuckle.

[onearmedbandit]

I'd say that's more to do with a lack of commonsense, a lack of ability, and a lack of intelligence rather than just speed. Unfortunately none of those you can police and enforce limits on.

[jellywrestler]

I'd say that's more to do with a lack of commonsense, a lack of ability, and a lack of intelligence rather than just speed. Unfortunately none of those you can police and enforce limits on.

you can, they just dont want to simply. I reckon they should have cameras in all cop cars recording ofeence bad driving ets and pulling people over for the.
Right now it's speed mostly, cause they don't want to fuck around being dragged into courts when someone challenges it. The judge sees the spped, knows the copper is sworn to tell the truth and convicts on that.
If they had cameras they could record footage, ticket people then it's out of their hands, the footage is used in court, and maybe police will actually seek out bad behaviour instead of just speed speed speed.
Until that happens people just get away with shit again and again.

[jellywrestler]

Had to laugh at this one. The laws of physics doesn't have a tolerance.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/131...ighspeed-crash

Chuckle.

you've fallen into your own hole here, 'speed isn't the issue' It's an issue of a number, not the issue

[Berries]

Ferrari. Meh. Pretty sure the corner was unsigned and the council will be in the firing line. Get a local perspective - https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/c...-twice-one-day

[SaferRides]

Well, AT has been busy changing speed limits in Mangere and the result is a mess. On a short drive (maybe 5km) there were 30, 40, 50, 60 and 80 km/h limits. One section of road went from 50 to 30 past a school, stayed at 30 for maybe 500 m after the school, back to 50, then to 40, 60 and 30 (school down a side road?) and then 60, or it might have been 50. I lost track.

It is actually worse than Victoria, which is quite an achievement. Their limits are at least logical.

If we are going to have 40 as the standard urban speed limit, then there should be a managed change nationally.

[roogazza]

Well, AT has been busy changing speed limits in Mangere and the result is a mess. On a short drive (maybe 5km) there were 30, 40, 50, 60 and 80 km/h limits. One section of road went from 50 to 30 past a school, stayed at 30 for maybe 500 m after the school, back to 50, then to 40, 60 and 30 (school down a side road?) and then 60, or it might have been 50. I lost track.

It is actually worse than Victoria, which is quite an achievement. Their limits are at least logical.

If we are going to have 40 as the standard urban speed limit, then there should be a managed change nationally.

I'm driving around glued to the bloody speedo. If anyone is mooching around Levin or passing thru watch for the camera vans ,especially around the Queen St areas...

[James Deuce]

Congrats to LTNZ for completely fucking the Wairarapa weekend economy. I'm friendly with a few cafe owners in Greytown and Carterton and the massive drop in custom isn't seasonal, it's simply people can't be fucked spending time in the Wairarapa with the drop in speed limits and the massive fuckup that is the 4 years of road works between Carterton and Masterton and the current 30kph speed limit for most of that journey. The youngest took Mum out for brunch on Sunday and the cafe we went to was complaining that people weren't turning up for pre-booked tables so they were having to seat people outside while they waited to see if the reservations would turn up. Rusty, who owns the French Bakery in Greytown has completely dropped his weekend menu and just does cabinet food now. Not worth paying a chef to do half a dozen orders over 2 days.

Also watch out for the hidden speed camera in the middle of Carterton in the new 40kph speed zone.

The 80kph speed limit between Featherston and Greytown. WTF is that about? It's 3 straights joined up by 2 corners. They've made all these changes and they very seldom Police it. I just set cruise and sit dead on the limit. I get overtaken repeatedly. I get angry rage fits from people who cannot get into their tiny fucking heads that the speed limit at the North is 50kph right through to the 80kph limit. The "dangerous" bit of road was between Carterton and Masterton. The deaths on that stretch of road they keep referring to are getting close to a decade and more ago and the only accidents are the constant damage to vehicles from poorly managed road works. At this point LTNZ are just taking the piss and they can get fucked.

[release_the_bees]

That 80km/h section certainly is a head scratcher. I rode through there last weekend and I don't recall anything particularly hazardous about it. It's especially perplexing considering that (correct me if I'm wrong) the Remutaka Hill Road is still 100 km/h. Not that I'm complaining, but I'd have thought that would have been the first candidate in that area for a speed limit reduction.

Luckily, I was heading out Te Wharau way, so I turned off before Carterton so didn't run the chance of triggering the hidden speed camera. I tend to ride within the limits, especially in populated areas, but it's still good to know it is there for next time.

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