Police getting tougher on speed tolerance

[RDJ]

What gold standard did you check and calibrate your speedometer with and how much did it cost to do so? 7% error (optimistic) is quite typical for a car/bike speedometer.

No additional cost - already own 2 Garmin Zumos, 1x 450, 1x 550. I believe GPS speeds are as accurate as it gets for the likes of us.

[RDJ]

Actually Police have SWFA power hence why criminals get away scot free so often....

So what your really trying to say is cops should have much better driving standards than us but be expected to be lenient to us found driving to much lesser standard....

A bad analogy btw, you realise how many people are harmed or killed by medical malpractice, way more than u-turning cops cars.....

...and while we're judging analogies, recall that you give consent to a doctor / surgeon to operate / treat you. And you can withdraw that at any time while you're still conscious pre-anesthetic. Police 'operate' on you without consultation, consent or warning.

[R650R]

...and while we're judging analogies, recall that you give consent to a doctor / surgeon to operate / treat you. And you can withdraw that at any time while you're still conscious pre-anesthetic. Police 'operate' on you without consultation, consent or warning.

Errrr No. You become their bitch when you sign for your drivers license, its all in the fine print there that you accept to bend over and take all that is directed by the state and its agents...
If you want to know more on this complex area of commercial law and the sale of your person to the state vis your birth certificate then you'll have to book a seminar with Axzle...

[Conquiztador]

Sorry, did not read all of it. But I think I got the idea...

There is millions and more millions NZ$'s spent on "The Road Toll Must Come Down". Lower tolerances for breaking the speed limit, lower alcohol limits, more police on the roads, $$'s spent on modern radars to catch the speeders, etc. And then the death toll goes up... In any other job head would roll. You have installed new rules and regulations to achieve your objective, you have spent money. But you have failed... So what do they do? Yep, police even more and punish the slightest overstepping of the laws. That seems to be the answer to it all: Punishment!

But punishment does not work. It creates resentment and anger. Punishment as a teaching technique does not work. Not with animals (have you ever been to a dog training?), not with children (it is today totally removed from our schools as punishment does not work to teach) and not with adults (I have never ever seen punishment used as a technique in any training programmes). But our police insists that it is the way to go. So they keep on punishing us for very small mistakes/oversteps. And when they fail in their job their answer is to punish us even more.

So, if the saving of lives is really the objective here (I do doubt it...) then why are we spending such a huge amount of funds to get the road toll below the current 350/year (approx only)? Suicide prevention does not even get 10% of the amount that is spent on the Road Toll prevention. We have 500/year suicides in NZ (approx only). Would it not make sense to spend more funds on suicide prevention to bring those numbers down?

But then again... giving people who attempt suicides a fine might not work. And as that is clearly the preferred option to solve all problems perhaps we need some new options??

Note that I am not attacking the officers doing the job. They have been told what to do and they must obey. I have a problem with the ones pulling the strings. The ones using the Road Toll as a way to prove that they are doing their job. And I can se why: It is easy to measure, Police can be seen "doing their job", it is propaganda. When the accepted answer is "more punishment" nobody needs to do any thinking.

Personally I don't think the real answer is that hard to come up with. Simple in fact: Get more vehicles off our roads! Provide awsum public transport, cheap air tickets, use railways for transporting all the big stuff like containers, timber etc. But what is happening? Railways are scrapped, more freight trucks are coming on to the roads (we are currently short of qualified truck drivers...).

Time to get people at the top with brains and passion for our country.

[haydes55]

Sorry, did not read all of it. But I think I got the idea...

There is millions and more millions NZ$'s spent on "The Road Toll Must Come Down". Lower tolerances for breaking the speed limit, lower alcohol limits, more police on the roads, $$'s spent on modern radars to catch the speeders, etc. And then the death toll goes up... In any other job head would roll. You have installed new rules and regulations to achieve your objective, you have spent money. But you have failed... So what do they do? Yep, police even more and punish the slightest overstepping of the laws. That seems to be the answer to it all: Punishment!

But punishment does not work. It creates resentment and anger. Punishment as a teaching technique does not work. Not with animals (have you ever been to a dog training?), not with children (it is today totally removed from our schools as punishment does not work to teach) and not with adults (I have never ever seen punishment used as a technique in any training programmes). But our police insists that it is the way to go. So they keep on punishing us for very small mistakes/oversteps. And when they fail in their job their answer is to punish us even more.

So, if the saving of lives is really the objective here (I do doubt it...) then why are we spending such a huge amount of funds to get the road toll below the current 350/year (approx only)? Suicide prevention does not even get 10% of the amount that is spent on the Road Toll prevention. We have 500/year suicides in NZ (approx only). Would it not make sense to spend more funds on suicide prevention to bring those numbers down?

But then again... giving people who attempt suicides a fine might not work. And as that is clearly the preferred option to solve all problems perhaps we need some new options??

Note that I am not attacking the officers doing the job. They have been told what to do and they must obey. I have a problem with the ones pulling the strings. The ones using the Road Toll as a way to prove that they are doing their job. And I can se why: It is easy to measure, Police can be seen "doing their job", it is propaganda. When the accepted answer is "more punishment" nobody needs to do any thinking.

Personally I don't think the real answer is that hard to come up with. Simple in fact: Get more vehicles off our roads! Provide awsum public transport, cheap air tickets, use railways for transporting all the big stuff like containers, timber etc. But what is happening? Railways are scrapped, more freight trucks are coming on to the roads (we are currently short of qualified truck drivers...).

Time to get people at the top with brains and passion for our country.

You win the thread.

[R650R]

Suicide prevention does not even get 10% of the amount that is spent on the Road Toll prevention. We have 500/year suicides in NZ (approx only). Would it not make sense to spend more funds on suicide prevention to bring those numbers down?

Railways are scrapped, more freight trucks are coming on to the roads (we are currently short of qualified truck drivers...).

Time to get people at the top with brains and passion for our country.

Yes that's the real elephant in the room and getting worse. And for those 500 that 'succeeded' there must be at least ten times as many who tried or threatened too via friends or social media resulting in a 111 call. So that's 5000 people a year at least tying up priority one police resources and ambo. Its a terrible waste alright and hopefully some genius comes up with a decent programme. Then they'd be at least 20,000 man hours of policing to add to road safety instead...

I fail to see the analogy between speed tolerance and rail freight vs trucks. If anything its proven how cost and time effective trucking is. And btw Truckies have been subject to the 4k tolerance for the last ten years and I don't think any of them ran of the road staring at their speedos....
If anything its just reinforced how cost and time effective road is over rail for 90% of goods moved in NZ. 10-15 years ago enforcement was lax and it was quite normal to be rocking along at 110-115k on the likes of SH27 and you might just get a friendly warning flash of the lights and their was no *555 for joe blow to play at being mall cop.
Now every car behind you is effectively a policeman and the cops themselves have gotten stricter.
Maybe a trucks vs trains thread so people can understand the facts.
There is no shortage of truck drivers if you are a reputable employer, I've just changed and their was a que to get in the door...

Brains and passion yes. Someone needs to start a movement that our policitcians must have had real jobs in the relevant field for ten years before entering parliament. Eg the minister of health must have been a doctor/surgeon, minister of police must have been a real cop, justice minister must be someone whos worked in victim support etc. No fancy ideologists like Helen clark and no big money gamblers from the stock amrkey like Keys.

[TheDemonLord]

Sorry, did not read all of it. But I think I got the idea...

There is millions and more millions NZ$'s spent on "The Road Toll Must Come Down". Lower tolerances for breaking the speed limit, lower alcohol limits, more police on the roads, $$'s spent on modern radars to catch the speeders, etc. And then the death toll goes up... In any other job head would roll. You have installed new rules and regulations to achieve your objective, you have spent money. But you have failed... So what do they do? Yep, police even more and punish the slightest overstepping of the laws. That seems to be the answer to it all: Punishment!

But punishment does not work. It creates resentment and anger. Punishment as a teaching technique does not work. Not with animals (have you ever been to a dog training?), not with children (it is today totally removed from our schools as punishment does not work to teach) and not with adults (I have never ever seen punishment used as a technique in any training programmes). But our police insists that it is the way to go. So they keep on punishing us for very small mistakes/oversteps. And when they fail in their job their answer is to punish us even more.

So, if the saving of lives is really the objective here (I do doubt it...) then why are we spending such a huge amount of funds to get the road toll below the current 350/year (approx only)? Suicide prevention does not even get 10% of the amount that is spent on the Road Toll prevention. We have 500/year suicides in NZ (approx only). Would it not make sense to spend more funds on suicide prevention to bring those numbers down?

But then again... giving people who attempt suicides a fine might not work. And as that is clearly the preferred option to solve all problems perhaps we need some new options??

Note that I am not attacking the officers doing the job. They have been told what to do and they must obey. I have a problem with the ones pulling the strings. The ones using the Road Toll as a way to prove that they are doing their job. And I can se why: It is easy to measure, Police can be seen "doing their job", it is propaganda. When the accepted answer is "more punishment" nobody needs to do any thinking.

Personally I don't think the real answer is that hard to come up with. Simple in fact: Get more vehicles off our roads! Provide awsum public transport, cheap air tickets, use railways for transporting all the big stuff like containers, timber etc. But what is happening? Railways are scrapped, more freight trucks are coming on to the roads (we are currently short of qualified truck drivers...).

Time to get people at the top with brains and passion for our country.

What is this Crazy, logical, well thought out stuff doing on KB?!?

[Conquiztador]

Yes that's the real elephant in the room and getting worse. And for those 500 that 'succeeded' there must be at least ten times as many who tried or threatened too via friends or social media resulting in a 111 call. So that's 5000 people a year at least tying up priority one police resources and ambo. Its a terrible waste alright and hopefully some genius comes up with a decent programme. Then they'd be at least 20,000 man hours of policing to add to road safety instead...

I fail to see the analogy between speed tolerance and rail freight vs trucks. If anything its proven how cost and time effective trucking is. And btw Truckies have been subject to the 4k tolerance for the last ten years and I don't think any of them ran of the road staring at their speedos....
If anything its just reinforced how cost and time effective road is over rail for 90% of goods moved in NZ. 10-15 years ago enforcement was lax and it was quite normal to be rocking along at 110-115k on the likes of SH27 and you might just get a friendly warning flash of the lights and their was no *555 for joe blow to play at being mall cop.
Now every car behind you is effectively a policeman and the cops themselves have gotten stricter.
Maybe a trucks vs trains thread so people can understand the facts.
There is no shortage of truck drivers if you are a reputable employer, I've just changed and their was a que to get in the door...

Brains and passion yes. Someone needs to start a movement that our policitcians must have had real jobs in the relevant field for ten years before entering parliament. Eg the minister of health must have been a doctor/surgeon, minister of police must have been a real cop, justice minister must be someone whos worked in victim support etc. No fancy ideologists like Helen clark and no big money gamblers from the stock amrkey like Keys.

Re suicides: Provide easily accessable councelling. One big group are farmers. Males who are expected to be strong and have all the answers. To work in isolation and keep the country running. The ones who have managed to get help before 'succeeding' to kill them selves have similar stories: Finacial struggles, banks and insurance hassles, relationships taking a hit. They are not males who admit that they are not coping. Give them easily accessable professional help. Another group is people who have diagnosed mental illness. Currently the solution is to close local facilities that provide a 'safe haven', facilities where the staff knows them. They have to travel to main centres to get help. We are talking about people who struggle to get up in the morning, who struggle with new people, who struggle to take their medicin and suddenly they are supposed to travel to get help....

Re trucks: I get stuck behind more trucks on roads today than ever before. They are damaging the roads, causing drivers to take risks to pass and yes, also make us speed to pass them. But my point was more re the decisions made at the top: If road safety was the top priority then why not make more trucks disappear and use the rail? One reason I don't believe that the main reason behind all this is to save lives but to run every part of our country like a business. It is cheaper to close railways and get private companies to transport stuff on the road. That, in my opinion, does not equate to saving lives on the road.

[BlackSheepLogic]

Yes, I get caught behind trucks, BUT they pull to the left at pretty much any opportunity, even at times slowing down to let traffic behind them pass. They don't tailgate me, don't cut me off, they don't speed up to make sure I can't pass them, don't run though roundabouts when I'm i'm them, indicate when appropriate, don't suddenly stand on there brakes mid corner, keep to there side of the road etc..... I don't mind sharing the road with truckers working to feed their families because they easy to follow and on the whole really courteous.

There are a few drivers and I noticed more than usual over the holiday period this year who seemed to be intentionally holding up traffic at there righteous speed (sometimes as low as 80Km/h) according to there inaccurate speedometer , drivers who blocked the passing lane (sometimes at such a slow differential in speed that they failed to pass), camper vans that made no effort to let traffic pass them, and drivers which stood on there brakes at every minor bend in the road especially bad mid-corner.

I have no problem sharing the road with slower or faster road users who are courteous and well behaved. The majority by far I find are this way. But it only takes a few to cause havoc on the road - the righteous in particular excel in creating problems on the road because there uncourteous behavior extends far beyond just obstructing traffic flow.

I would like to see more of the safety messaging & enforcement related to speed spent instead on uncourteous & obstructive driving. I don't believe the majority of bad behavior on the road is skill related. I think a lot of it poor attitude, aggressive personalities, and righteous entitlement. Although the percentage of drivers in these categories is small their behavior effects a lot of road users.

Re trucks: I get stuck behind more trucks on roads today than ever before. They are damaging the roads, causing drivers to take risks to pass and yes, also make us speed to pass them. But my opint was more re the decisions made at the top: If road safety was the top priority then why not make more trucks disappear and use the rail? One reason I don't believe that the main reason behind all this is to save lives but to run every part of our country like a business. It is cheaper to close railways and get private companies to transport stuff on the road. That, in my opinion, does not equate to saving lives on the road.

[Conquiztador]

Yes, I get caught behind trucks, BUT they pull to the left at pretty much any opportunity, even at times slowing down to let traffic behind them pass. They don't tailgate me, don't cut me off, they don't speed up to make sure I can't pass them, don't run though roundabouts when I'm i'm them, indicate when appropriate, don't suddenly stand on there brakes mid corner, keep to there side of the road etc..... I don't mind sharing the road with truckers working to feed their families because they easy to follow and on the whole really courteous.

I do not have a problem with truck drivers. I have a problem with decision makers who decide that saving money by scrapping railways and making privateers in charge of transporting all goods is a stroke of brilliance. I have a problem with decisios that make us use our private vehicles to get anywhere, I have a problem with cramming more vehicles on to the roads, I have a problem with making all decisions for this country based on dollars. I have a problem with cost cutting and making the ones on the fringes of our society have to fend for them self, I have a problem with the answer to all this being punishment of the individuals, I have a problem with the lack of any real big picture strategy where all is considered, I have a problem with making the ones who have to perform the tasks the bad guys. And I have a huge problem with punishment being used to solve it all. Did just resently read about a farmer family who got a $20K fine for not having helmets on when usig their 4W bikes. It was the 4'th time they got caught making this horrendeous crime. That is $20K that should have been used to feed the animals, send kids to school, fix that old tractor etc. Did anyone think about giving them education/training/incentives to make them use helmets? Or was it, once again, make them obey the masters by punishment??

[unstuck]

I do not have a problem with truck drivers. I have a problem with decision makers who decide that saving money by scrapping railways and making privateers in charge of transporting all goods is a stroke of brilliance. I have a problem with making all decisions for this country based on dollars. I have a problem with cost cutting and making the ones on the fringes of our society have to fend for them self, I have a problem with the answer to all this being punishment of the individuals, I have a problem with the lack of any real big picture strategy where all is considered, I have a problem with making the ones who have to perform the tasks the bad guys. And I have a huge problem with punishment being used to solve it all. Did just resently read about a farmer family who got a $20K fine for not having helmets on when usig their 4W bikes. It was the 4'th time they got caught making this horrendeous crime. That is $20K that should have been used to feed the animals, send kids to school, fix that old tractor etc. Did anyone think about giving them education/training/incentives to make them use helmets? Or was it, once again, make them obey the masters by punishment??

Was $20 grand each for both the farmer and his wife.= $40g

[Conquiztador]

Was $20 grand each for both the farmer and his wife.= $40g

Somebody slipped up... Why did they not add $20K for the kids, the dog, a few pigs and that noisy chook?

[unstuck]

Somebody slipped up... Why did they not add $20K for the kids, the dog, a few pigs and that noisy chook?

Must be a great job hiding in the bushes spying on farmers. Wonder how you get on to that lark.

[Big Dog]

Re suicides: Provide easily accessable councelling. One big group are farmers. Males who are expected to be strong and have all the answers. To work in isolation and keep the country running. The ones who have managed to get help before 'succeeding' to kill them selves have similar stories: Finacial struggles, banks and insurance hassles, relationships taking a hit. They are not males who admit that they are not coping. Give them easily accessable professional help. Another group is people who have diagnosed mental illness. Currently the solution is to close local facilities that provide a 'safe haven', facilities where the staff knows them. They have to travel to main centres to get help. We are talking about people who struggle to get up in the morning, who struggle with new people, who struggle to take their medicin and suddenly they are supposed to travel to get help....

Re trucks: I get stuck behind more trucks on roads today than ever before. They are damaging the roads, causing drivers to take risks to pass and yes, also make us speed to pass them. But my point was more re the decisions made at the top: If road safety was the top priority then why not make more trucks disappear and use the rail? One reason I don't believe that the main reason behind all this is to save lives but to run every part of our country like a business. It is cheaper to close railways and get private companies to transport stuff on the road. That, in my opinion, does not equate to saving lives on the road.

Oh and if you do get diagnosed with a lifelong condition that causes your depression and need help you get 6 visits to a pro. Or 10 if you pay $100 per visit.

I guess that is up on the 2 visits I was offered 20 years ago.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

Must be a great job hiding in the bushes spying on farmers. Wonder how you get on to that lark.

It is rarely a good idea to make a career out of your hobby.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.