Police getting tougher on speed tolerance

[Ocean1]

confusing propoganda

Well, see it had to be "confusing", the alternative explanation for a huge PR fuckup that threatened to derail the current road policy set is that it's simply wrong.

Me? I'm going with wrong AND fucking silly.

[Berries]

A quote from the Herald today, talking about how confusing propoganda contributed to driving attitudes "He said as of yesterday, only 14 tickets were issued for speeds of between 1-4km over a speed limit, compared with the 13 tickets that were issued throughout the same period during the December 2013-January 2014 campaign"

So scumdog was right. On the other hand, the police advertised for a decent length of time about zero tolerance, said once on the news they were no longer and then continued with the advertising that any speed above the limit is speeding.... Very confusing, the typical driver would be exposed to the police saying they will be ticketed for 101km/h 100 times for every time the police said they wouldn't be that strict.

I am getting confused now. The open road speed limit is 100km/h. If you exceed that limit and are caught you should expect a ticket. Seems almost too simple to me.

[GrayWolf]

I wonder how many of the pro train lobby would give up their right to travel by car between cities/towns provinces. Eg the govt invests massively in rail and bans all but crucial supplies for road freight.
But to make the rail profitable they need passengers too so they ban travel in private car anywhere greater than 20km from your declared address, all other travel must be by bus or rail... can you imagine the outcry???
BTW that would massively lower the road toll too.....

OK to respond to a few of your 'points', accepted train drivers get a good wage??,,, but all these train crew?? Where did you get that idea? Freight is basically 'single manned' at best, a second in cab... hardly a 'mas of highly paid train crew'. Passenger? 1 driver, 1 guard, and a passenger operator per extra 2 car set. In peak times, they do add extra pass-op's on certain services. Out of peak, often just a train manager even on a 4 car set. We discussed this before, and as accepted then, that the historical sell off of rail property, shutting down of lines was a reprehensible act of stupidity.
Your point about logging? Rail carries the bulk, if not all, of the logging shipped out of Wellington Harbour, thousands of tonnes a week. Mainfrieght recently built their new huge depot... beside the kiwirail freight yard.

Profitability? currently freight is the largest earner of the group, passenger is the 'instant cash' group, whereas freight is a 'bill you, pay later' system. Hundreds of millions are being spent on the infrastructure in Wellington, again thanks to decades of profit leaching and non return to the network investment. Banning of cars is not the answer to gain 'profit' for rail... but rather than the billions spent on increasing road capacity, spend it on improving the level of, and the spreading of passenger rail services. Compared to other countries, the passenger service in Wellington is a cheap one, Auckland has spent massive amounts upgrading it's passenger service network.... There's where your 'profit' would arise from... increased patronage as it would simply be 'better' to go by train than by car.

[haydes55]

I am getting confused now. The open road speed limit is 100km/h. If you exceed that limit and are caught you should expect a ticket. Seems almost too simple to me.

But hundreds of thousands of people went past police between 1-4km/h over the speed limit and only 14 were ticketed. So they weren't focusing on the zero tolerance. So they did allow some tolerance. So drivers didn't need to stare at their speedo and slam on their brakes whenever they saw a cop.

[pete376403]

snip lots of railway stuff

Sounds line you know a fair bit about NZ rail - any idea why the Wgtn passenger stock is Korean yet the Auckland stuff is Spanish and almost completely different ( rail gauge seems to be the only common factor).

Wouldn't it have made more sense for Auckland to get the same as Wellington - one set of tools, one set of parts, bulk discounts, one training scheme, etc..?Just asking?

[scumdog]

So drivers didn't need to stare at their speedo and slam on their brakes whenever they saw a cop.

You wouldn't think that by the way some numb-nuts bleat on about it "Oh it will make my driving less safe 'cos I will have to look at my speedo all the time" blah-blah-blah.

So how did they get on when the tolerance was 10kph over and they treated that as a defacto 'speed limit'???

[Scuba_Steve]

You wouldn't think that by the way some numb-nuts bleat on about it "Oh it will make my driving less safe 'cos I will have to look at my speedo all the time" blah-blah-blah.

So how did they get on when the tolerance was 10kph over and they treated that as a defacto 'speed limit'???

It's the speed scam as a whole that is detrimental to safety not the chosen tolerance on the day

[Reckless]

Dog and Lemon guy recons Ad Campaigns, extra cops etc will never work, his Ideas here

http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Clive-Mat...4/Default.aspx

[pzkpfw]

You wouldn't think that by the way some numb-nuts bleat on about it "Oh it will make my driving less safe 'cos I will have to look at my speedo all the time" blah-blah-blah.

So how did they get on when the tolerance was 10kph over and they treated that as a defacto 'speed limit'???

We drive cars with our foot on the gas, and can pretty much keep that foot steady, to hold speed. But we're not robots *. Add to that the need to adjust for (or just be affected by) road conditions (other vehicles, hills, bends, wind, ...) and there will be some variation. So when I drive, I don't/can't keep exactly to a single speed, there's always some variation, some plus or minus. (I know some knobs claim they can drive with zero variation). So, for example, I'm not trying/able to drive exactly at (or up to) 100 km/h on the open road, I'm trying to drive about 100 km/h - and keep the variation within reason. Let's assume 95 to 105. (That's just for illustration, I'm not claiming that +/- 5 was my exact variation of speed).

* Even using cruise control on my wagon, there's variation in my speed. (And my bike is very throttle-twitchy, and road sensitive, and 90-100 is so small on the speedo I can barely tell the difference.)

Anyway, this is why I always thought it was perfectly reasonable that there was some "tolerance".

You could argue that I should've just aimed a little lower, say at 95. With +/- 5 giving a range of 90 to 100, instead of 95 to 105; but that's just going to cause frustration for people behind me, when at any moment they are wanting or able to do 100 and I'm at that moment doing less ... everyone should be aiming at the same speed on the same piece of road. It would also take away the simplicity of the thought that "about 100" is the limit. (I'll admit that knowing my speedo under-reads, I usually aimed at something more like an indicated 100-110 (being 105 +/- 5, expected to really be 100 +/- 5), but that's a detail.)

Further, I'd say that most people understand that some kind of limit is needed (faster=hurtier, etc), but nobody seriously thinks that 100 km/h is "safe" but cars burst into flame at 101 km/h.

So, notwithstanding the road signs that say "100 is not a target", the zero tolerance strategy is basically saying people can ("can" meaning both allowed to and able to) drive up to exactly 100, groovy happy nice, but a blip over is somehow evil bad and all their fault.

It's unrealistic in more than one way. It's frustrating, and normal natural human frustration is an underappreciated factor in road use.

[Kiwi Graham:Me]

You wouldn't think that by the way some numb-nuts bleat on about it "Oh it will make my driving less safe 'cos I will have to look at my speedo all the time" blah-blah-blah.

So how did they get on when the tolerance was 10kph over and they treated that as a defacto 'speed limit'???

Mate you can sit there and call people as many names as you like it aint going to fix it.

When the tolerance was 10k people would settle at an approx 100k and the speed would rise and fall according to road conditions.

Numpty comes along and says no tolerance now and people drive at 90k and their speed varies according to road conditions up or down meaning you now have people traveling as slow as 80k on 100k roads and/or watching their speedo so much to ensure they dont go over 100.
you should see how many people are hitting the picks when a cop car looms into sight even when traveling under the posted limit....just in case....

[swbarnett]

I am getting confused now. The open road speed limit is 100km/h. If you exceed that limit and are caught you should expect a ticket. Seems almost too simple to me.

Only if 1. All speedos are 100% accurate and 2. you can guarantee that all drivers can reasonably be expected to read their speedo with 100% accuracy.

No measuring device is 100% accurate and none can be read with 100% accuracy (even digital ones only read to +/1 1km).

[scumdog]

you should see how many people are hitting the picks when a cop car looms into sight even when traveling under the posted limit....just in case....

Nothing new - I've always done it.

But the 101kph thing is a right 'they sky is falling', people all 'assumed' they WOULD get a ticket for 1kph over the speed limit and drove accordingly.

Why do so many people always latch onto the most negative aspect of anything - and treat it as gospel????


'And they walk amongst us'

[swbarnett]

But the 101kph thing is a right 'they sky is falling', people all 'assumed' they WOULD get a ticket for 1kph over the speed limit and drove accordingly.

Those of us with no inside information can only believe what we are told - by the cop on the street in my case.

Why do so many people always latch onto the most negative aspect of anything - and treat it as gospel????

Human nature. An understanding of which I would've thought would be necessary in your line of work.

[_Shrek_]

I am getting confused now. The open road speed limit is 100km/h. If you exceed that limit and are caught you should expect a ticket. Seems almost too simple to me.

Berries getting a bit close to the truth here after all it is Kiwi Biker & we all know what's said on here is gospel

mrs S knows that there must have been a tolerance coz the sitting under the tree just as we went past after passing a ute along the straight

[R650R]

OK to respond to a few of your 'points', accepted train drivers get a good wage??,,, but all these train crew?? Where did you get that idea? Freight is basically 'single manned' at best, a second in cab... hardly a 'mas of highly paid train crew'. Passenger? 1 driver, 1 guard, and a passenger operator per extra 2 car set. In peak times, they do add extra pass-op's on certain services. Out of peak, often just a train manager even on a 4 car set. We discussed this before, and as accepted then, that the historical sell off of rail property, shutting down of lines was a reprehensible act of stupidity.
Your point about logging? Rail carries the bulk, if not all, of the logging shipped out of Wellington Harbour, thousands of tonnes a week. Mainfrieght recently built their new huge depot... beside the kiwirail freight yard.

Profitability? currently freight is the largest earner of the group, passenger is the 'instant cash' group, whereas freight is a 'bill you, pay later' system. Hundreds of millions are being spent on the infrastructure in Wellington, again thanks to decades of profit leaching and non return to the network investment. Banning of cars is not the answer to gain 'profit' for rail... but rather than the billions spent on increasing road capacity, spend it on improving the level of, and the spreading of passenger rail services. Compared to other countries, the passenger service in Wellington is a cheap one, Auckland has spent massive amounts upgrading it's passenger service network.... There's where your 'profit' would arise from... increased patronage as it would simply be 'better' to go by train than by car.

Errr that was Scuba who was talking about cashed up rail monkeys....
As for the Wellington logs prob from a consolidation yard at masterton which makes sense in that scenario as in centre of wairarapa region but whatever, they still have to get out of the forest first.
Yeah mainfreight and few of the other big boys always been big users of rail on the side, lot more than people realise. Now why do they have such a massive fleet of owner drivers when they have such easy rail access with rail sidings direct into many of their own yards???? Because a shitload of freight is demanded to be moved NOW by the customer. Not maybe tomorrow, not maybe this week but pick that shit up NOW and DELIVER it direct at XXam tomorrow....

With regard to passengers I'm saying if people want trucks of the road and less maintenance spent on roads then its only fair to force public to use trains and buses also. Be lot less speed tickets handed out though....